Innertube Patch

[UG_Passat]

On my MTB, the fluid inside the tire starts to dry up and lose its effectiveness after 6-12 months. This isn't easily apparent through visual inspection, but if you wait too long you'll find out when you get a puncture that doesn't seal.
This article says 2-7 months, but mine lasts longer than that. However, even if you can hear it sloshing around, it doesn't mean it's still effective.

How Often Should I Replace the Sealant in Tubeless Mountain Bike Tires? - Cycle Baron

Short answer: As an avid mountain bike enthusiast, I've certainly had my share of tubeless tire difficulties over the years. To compound this frustration

cyclebaron.com

I was an early tubeless rim person on my MTB. Those Stan's Arch EX are extremely difficult to pop the bead over.... never looked forward to tubeless maintenance, removing the giant latex booger before the start of the season, and trying to pop the bead over.... the only thing that worked was the Crank Brothers Speedier lever. The LBS broke a lot of plastic levers getting the tire beads to pop over.

And also, Stan's standard sealant has its limitations for puncture hole sizes... for punctures expected that the standard stan's won't seal, they make a "Race" sealant

 

[MRC01]

I could be wrong, but bike tire patches don’t work good like they did years ago because tubes are now butyl rubber instead of natural rubber. Patches don’t stick to butyl tubes successfully

That doesn't sound right to me. Butyl has been around since the 1940s. For inner tubes, it has some advantages over natural rubber, like being less permeable. When I worked in a bike shop back in the 1980s, I recall that all our standard inner tubes were butyl and we carried latex tubes for racers. If natural rubber tubes were available at all, they were a specialty item. That was a long time ago, so I could be having a senior moment...

I do know for sure that vulcanizing patch kits work pretty much indefinitely on butyl tubes. That has always been my experience for 30+ years of cycling.

 

[MRC01]

This thread reminded me to check my MTB. When I installed these tires back in early Dec I used 3 oz. of Stan's in each. Since then they've been holding pressure well, no flats or obvious seepage. When I changed the fluid today, each tire had only about 1 oz remaining. Now they're back to 3 oz. each of fresh fluid. I had to clean and re-tape the rear rim because some parts of the old tape were peeling up since the fluid gradually affects the tape.

That's typical maintenance for tubeless tires.

 

[MRC01]

.. for punctures expected that the standard stan's won't seal, they make a "Race" sealant

True. Yet before using their "race" fluid, know that they recommend changing it every few weeks -- not months!

 

[Pablo]

True. Yet before using their "race" fluid, know that they recommend changing it every few weeks -- not months!

I'm living on borrowed time.

I juiced mine in the fall. We shall see!

 

[UG_Passat]

True. Yet before using their "race" fluid, know that they recommend changing it every few weeks -- not months!

The few weeks as depending on where you rode and the temperature conditions. If you're riding in the summer and the tires get hot, you're going to need to top/replace it more often. If you're in shaded areas more often and the tires don't get hot from solar radiation effects, then you can go months before topping off or replacing the sealant.

 

[zzyzzx]

Conventional glue-on patches (Rema, for example) are reliable long-term, if carefully installed. However, ones that aren't too big for narrow tires are annoyingly hard to find.

You have to mail order them.

 

[supton]

I would mail order some tubes and a couple of Park’s patch kits.

What I do is wait until I get at least 5 tubes then repair all at once. Reason being, the tube of cement seems to dry out before I go and need to repair another inner tube… I’ve been 50-50 on patch repairs but I think last time I did some I was better than usual. I spent a bit more time buffing the rubber so as to get a rough surface for the glue to attach to, and I was very sure to let it set and dry before attempting to put the patch on—I may have been too hasty in the past.

Given the price of tubes it seems like a good method to save a few bucks. Worst case you are out the price of the patch kit.

 

[CR94]

That doesn't sound right to me. Butyl has been around since the 1940s. For inner tubes, it has some advantages over natural rubber, like being less permeable. ...
I do know for sure that vulcanizing patch kits work pretty much indefinitely on butyl tubes. That has always been my experience for 30+ years of cycling.

That's correct.

 

[CR94]

... Seems like you could cut down a big glue on. Kits used to come with various sizes and a really big one. When that was all that was left I would cut to size. ...

I've tried that. It sorta works, but not as reliably as a proper sized patch, because the abrupt cut edge is more likely to let go eventually than a tapered edge. There's a reason decent glue-on patches have tapered edges.

 

[MRC01]

As (bad) luck would have it, I got a flat on my morning ride. Pavement road bike with Conti GP5000 tires 700x25c. I've got about 1500 miles on the tires and bike and this is the first flat so I can't complain too much. The tire sidewall was damaged; a piece of road debris must have rotated up and scored it. I doubt that tubeless sealant could have fixed this, it would just made a big mess spewing sealant everywhere. I've seen this kind of tire damage do exactly that with tubeless tires. I had to patch the inside of the tire, then replace the tube. Unsafe but good enough to ride home.

After I got home, I replaced both tube and tire. The old tube (both are latex) had only a small hole where it popped out the bulge from the slashed tire sidewall. I patched it with my Rema kit, seals just fine, so it's now my backup tube. I keep a set of latex patches that I made by cutting them out of an old tube, and the Rema vulcanizing glue seals latex to latex nicely.

Anyway, one point is, that's one more flat that tubeless would not have sealed, but only made a big mess. That's why I run tubeless only on the mountain bike, not the road bike. The other point is the the good old fashioned REMA tube repair kits work on latex too. The third point is that I get fewer flats with latex tubes than with butyl tubes. Latex is not only a tad faster & smoother, but I find it less flat-prone.

 

[Jack Watts]

As (bad) luck would have it, I got a flat on my morning ride. Pavement road bike with Conti GP5000 tires 700x25c. I've got about 1500 miles on the tires and bike and this is the first flat so I can't complain too much. The tire sidewall was damaged; a piece of road debris must have rotated up and scored it. I doubt that tubeless sealant could have fixed this, it would just made a big mess spewing sealant everywhere. I've seen this kind of tire damage do exactly that with tubeless tires. I had to patch the inside of the tire, then replace the tube. Unsafe but good enough to ride home.

After I got home, I replaced both tube and tire. The old tube (both are latex) had only a small hole where it popped out the bulge from the slashed tire sidewall. I patched it with my Rema kit, seals just fine, so it's now my backup tube. I keep a set of latex patches that I made by cutting them out of an old tube, and the Rema vulcanizing glue seals latex to latex nicely.

Anyway, one point is, that's one more flat that tubeless would not have sealed, but only made a big mess. That's why I run tubeless only on the mountain bike, not the road bike. The other point is the the good old fashioned REMA tube repair kits work on latex too. The third point is that I get fewer flats with latex tubes than with butyl tubes. Latex is not only a tad faster & smoother, but I find it less flat-prone.

A while back my wife had a nasty sidewall cut, probably 7-8mm wide. She installed 2 Dynaplugs (the big round ones) in the sidewall and was able to limp it home on about 40 psi. This was on a 5000S, 32mm. It held well enough that she wanted to keep riding it. Dental work being more expensive than tires, I just swapped it out. Point being though, you can absolutely fix catastrophic cuts with tubeless. I have yet to ever have to install a tube, even though I will still carry one when I'm on a big ride out in the middle of nowhere.

If you want the ultimate in security, you can run tubeless with a liner, which is what a lot of pro teams are now doing. It's just a slight increase in weight and doesn't affect Crr. It will basically simulate having about 20-25 psi. You won't be railing through corners, but you can get home.

In short, I just see no reason to ever use an innertube again. I got a 6-7mm slice 2 nights ago. I lost enough air that I had to hit it with a co2 cartridge, but it sealed up just fine.

 

[MRC01]

... you can absolutely fix catastrophic cuts with tubeless. I have yet to ever have to install a tube, even though I will still carry one when I'm on a big ride out in the middle of nowhere.

If you want the ultimate in security, you can run tubeless with a liner, which is what a lot of pro teams are now doing. It's just a slight increase in weight and doesn't affect Crr. It will basically simulate having about 20-25 psi. You won't be railing through corners, but you can get home.

In short, I just see no reason to ever use an innertube again. I got a 6-7mm slice 2 nights ago. I lost enough air that I had to hit it with a co2 cartridge, but it sealed up just fine.

Your luck's better than mine. I've had the experience of watching all the sealant spew out of holes in my tubeless tires, without sealing them. In one case I installed a tube and got home. In the other case the tire damage was too severe for a tube so I was walking.

On the liners, I've heard they use closed cell foam so when the tire is pressurized, the liner compresses small inside the tube, so it doesn't affect rolling, just adds a little weight. When you get a puncture, pressure drops and the foam expands. Nice idea.

 

[DangerousDan]

As (bad) luck would have it, I got a flat on my morning ride. Pavement road bike with Conti GP5000 tires 700x25c. I've got about 1500 miles on the tires and bike and this is the first flat so I can't complain too much. The tire sidewall was damaged; a piece of road debris must have rotated up and scored it. I doubt that tubeless sealant could have fixed this, it would just made a big mess spewing sealant everywhere. I've seen this kind of tire damage do exactly that with tubeless tires. I had to patch the inside of the tire, then replace the tube. Unsafe but good enough to ride home.

After I got home, I replaced both tube and tire. The old tube (both are latex) had only a small hole where it popped out the bulge from the slashed tire sidewall. I patched it with my Rema kit, seals just fine, so it's now my backup tube. I keep a set of latex patches that I made by cutting them out of an old tube, and the Rema vulcanizing glue seals latex to latex nicely.

Anyway, one point is, that's one more flat that tubeless would not have sealed, but only made a big mess. That's why I run tubeless only on the mountain bike, not the road bike. The other point is the the good old fashioned REMA tube repair kits work on latex too. The third point is that I get fewer flats with latex tubes than with butyl tubes. Latex is not only a tad faster & smoother, but I find it less flat-prone.

By any chance did the failed tire look like this?

I have had two of the older GP5000 TL 700X25 tires fail like this. Both had a lot of miles. The wear dimples on both the tires which failed were nearly gone but I just wanted to get those last few miles...
I have had no issues with the GP5000 TL 700X32 tires on our tandem. Continental has replaced the GP5000 TL with the GP5000S TR. Supposedly they do not have this issue.

 

[MRC01]

Ouch! No the damage on mine was higher up from the bead along the sidewall.
Fellow tandem rider - cool!