A recent power washing customer of mine has run a transmission shop in my town for years and years. I picked his brain a little and asked about factory recommended ATF change intervals. His response was, "If everyone did a pan drop and filter change once a year, transmission shops would go out of business." This pretty much coincides with what I have read here. Just a little info.
Info from Tranny Shop owner ref. ATF changes
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and concurs with what I have heard other transmission shop folks say before as well. Of course, all shops wouldn't go out of business since there are many Honda ATs out there.
Well known fact. We flush and fill three or four times a year...run big coolers and in line spin on trannie filters (saved our butts a few times when the stall exploded)and we never run synthetic ATF in the high performnace transmissions....FWIW
That just isn't true. While transmissions fail for a variety of reasons, at least in the recent years, rarely is it due to a lubrication issue.
I think what he meant is if trans failures occur because of lack of maintenance is 65% for example. He would have a 65% reduction in trans overhauls jobs. I imagine a shop would not make enough money for operating costs and have to shut down. IMHO
If shops only did the necessary repairs half of them would go out of business.
Critic,
Recently, Honda had those lubrication problems with the 5-speed & had to add an oil-jet due to lack of lubrication to 2nd (or was it 3rd gear?). Of course, you did say rarely.
Recently, Honda had those lubrication problems with the 5-speed & had to add an oil-jet due to lack of lubrication to 2nd (or was it 3rd gear?). Of course, you did say rarely.
got 95,000 on my crv and no trans issues to speak of. i drained and refilled at 60,000, and at 80,000. comming up on 100,000, ill do it again.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. Yes, Honda did have lubrication issues with the 2nd gear in the early 5AT (remedied by adding an oil jet) and an underbuilt 3rd clutch in the 5AT (remedied, maybe).
But these were DESIGN issues that were unrelated to the frequency of fluid changes. Replacing the fluid more frequently had ZERO effect on these issues.
Just about every non-electrical or engineering snafu IS a lubrication issue and easily out numbers those just needing 'jets'.
What happens to lubrication when a fluid shears or oxidizes?
What happens to lubrication when there is no filter but wear material continually builds and recirculates?
What happens when components and seals are lubricated by that poorly filtered fluid?
What happens to lubrication when the cooling is pathetic and the ATF temp is excessive?
What happens to lubrication when it is too cold out and that cheap mineral ATF doesn't pump or flow too well?
The regular drain/refill regmimen truly would extends the life of ANY component, and not just your transmission.
Adding a full flow filter is also another easy way to extend the life of those components.
And, monitoring ATF temp, with your driving style, would help with cooler size selection.
What happens to lubrication when a fluid shears or oxidizes?
What happens to lubrication when there is no filter but wear material continually builds and recirculates?
What happens when components and seals are lubricated by that poorly filtered fluid?
What happens to lubrication when the cooling is pathetic and the ATF temp is excessive?
What happens to lubrication when it is too cold out and that cheap mineral ATF doesn't pump or flow too well?
The regular drain/refill regmimen truly would extends the life of ANY component, and not just your transmission.
Adding a full flow filter is also another easy way to extend the life of those components.
And, monitoring ATF temp, with your driving style, would help with cooler size selection.
But as usual most people will not change their ATF on a regular basis. And if they kind of do, they will be talked into a flush and will avoid changing the filter or cleaning the pan. I can pretty much guarantee you that the flush at Jiffy Lube does nothing with the pan or filter. They will say they push a cleaner/dispersant through the AT and dropping the pan or changing the filter is not needed.
Most quick lubes flush with fluid only. Usually it's independent shops and dealers who will attempt to sell the cleaner/conditioner. The ATF filter is really a "rock stopper," and rarely is it truly necessary to change it. If it's clogged, you have bigger problems to worry about it.
good point critic. esp if its just a screen
I agree with you basically about the filter, but I think dropping the pan gives one some insight as to the condition of the AT. However I think it you went into a quick lube place and the ATF was like driveway sealer or bright red, they would do the same flush and send you on your way.
I have a pan removal (two pans) clean everything and new filter every 30,000 miles with the best Dexron III ot VI fluid available. The cooler is flushed with air and allowed to drain for an extended period.
As far as I know this is the recommended service by BMW for this transmission. I do not believe it has every had a power flush or or any type of pressure flush. As of today, the transmission seems to do fine.
As far as I know this is the recommended service by BMW for this transmission. I do not believe it has every had a power flush or or any type of pressure flush. As of today, the transmission seems to do fine.
The power or pressure flush is really not that. The machine merely pushes new fluid back into the pan using a low pressure. The pump in the AT then picks up the new fluid and pushes it through the AT under normal pressure and after flowing through the AT it comes out of the cooler line where its dumped into the old fluid container in the machine. The fancy machines weigh the old fluid coming out and pump in new fluid at the same rate.
Agreed.
I think that's essentially true. IF the transmission has been serviced properly FROM THE START, and by "properly" I mean consistent with the type of use the vehicle gets, then frequent filter changes are not strictly necessary. I do think an occasional pan-drop to verify overall condition is a good idea.
I also agree with The Critic when he says:
Though, what's the point? If it shifts fine and the fluid's fresh, don't worry about it.
Fine, you drop the pan. You find a load of friction material. What are you going to do? Take it to a transmission shop? You're going to keep driving it anyway, so why bother finding out?
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Fine, you drop the pan. You find a load of friction material. What are you going to do? Take it to a transmission shop? You're going to keep driving it anyway, so why bother finding out?
Well, you could either sell it quick to someone you don't like or start saving money for a new transmission. Most GM transmissions have a filter, more than just a screen, even if they aren't a real fine filter. It seems to me they could clog or restrict flow eventually if never touched. I change my filters every 30k.
The reason trans medic,trans tune,trans-fix,Lucas Trans No-Slip etc....... All do a decent job of extending transmission life is simple. Most transmissions are gumed up with varnish, or pluged with clutch material, and their fluid is sheered down to nothing.The seals are usualy hardened. These product's above usualy have solvents, VII's and seal conditioners in them. SO if you prevent these things from happening in the first place you have to waite for a mechanical part to fail.
SO doing anaual fluid changes or if iti a Toyota every 15,000-20,000 miles will extend the life drasticly if the mechanical design of the transmission is sound.
SO doing anaual fluid changes or if iti a Toyota every 15,000-20,000 miles will extend the life drasticly if the mechanical design of the transmission is sound.
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