Are we over exaggerating the perfect ATF fluid level? thermal expansion seems to think we are

[JeffKeryk]

How about a simple sight glass on the side of the case with a line on the glass where the fill level should be? I mean, I know it’s futuristic but that’s like what, 1880s technology??

OMG that's rocket science! Even if it is lifetime fluid...

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

OMG that's rocket science! Even if it is lifetime fluid...

I’ll PM you my address to send the royalty check to

 

[burbguy82]

While not having a dipstick sucks (for refilling purpose), the check procedure is much easier and more precise than the dipstick method, IMO

 

[JeffKeryk]

I’ll PM you my address to send the royalty check to

Your solution, over the long run, saves time and money for DIYers and techs alike.
Toyota's procedure is bone-headed.

Heck, a 5 year old would listen to an instructor and say, "Why in the world would anyone design such a thing?"

 

[JeffKeryk]

While not having a dipstick sucks (for refilling purpose), the check procedure is much easier and more precise than the dipstick method, IMO

Getting your car level on jackstands, crawling underneath with hot exhaust, reading temp and deciding what "a dribble" is is harder than stabbing a dipstick?

 

[burbguy82]

Getting your car level on jackstands, crawling underneath with hot exhaust, reading temp and deciding what "a dribble" is is harder than stabbing a dipstick?

Well, no not in that case. I agree with you there. For a truck, it is easier.

Dipstick is better, for ease, but for accuracy, the check plug is more precise IMO. It is easy to get a bad reading on a stick, especially after a couple attempts, due to fluid getting all over the stick.

A dribble is pretty precise really, maybe a 16th of an inch give or take. Hard to overfill.

Even if there is a check plug, there still should be a fill tube and stick, just for spot checks while getting gas or something.

 

[hrv]

YES we are...........

 

[TiGeo]

It's not that precise, follow the recommendation for how to set the level. My VWs are all like this, have to use a scan tool to get the trans temp in a certain range, pull the plug, let it drain until it's slows down on a drip (kinda of haha) and it's good. Folks freak out about it all the time in the forums/FB groups that their level may be off a little, it's not that precise that it could cause an issue.

 

[mgi7]

The point is, I tried to follow the recommendations. But, as I don't do it myself and have to drive to a shop, it's difficult to do so. And this only became apparent when the operation was underway and I had to wait several hours for the temp to get in the spec limits.

Leaving the car overnight doesn't seem reasonable for an operation that takes one hour at most. Plus, a small shop, like the one I went to, may not have space to park all these cars.

Anyway, thank you for all your opinions. I'll drive the car as it is and get back to the shop after a while to re-check the oil level, in cooler weather.

 

[RazorsEdge]

When I changed the transmission fluid in the 2015 escape, I drained it overnight into a container that has measurements on the side of it. The following day, I simply added the new fluid according to what was drained out. Then started the vehicle and shifted the transmission slowly through the gears. Should I have checked the level?! Sure, but there's been no issues.

 

[Exhaustgases]

WOW adding this seems to bring more food to thought, so would u say level doesn't need to be precise as much? or it does?

Since the case would become larger, at temp, I'd think more fluid is needed at operating temp, to keep the level correct. I'd don't know for sure, just compare cold level to hot level.

 

[Vil_Riker]

I remember growing up carburetors had a little glass window. We are now much smarter than that.

 

[4WD]

Getting your car level on jackstands, crawling underneath with hot exhaust, reading temp and deciding what "a dribble" is is harder than stabbing a dipstick?

Good vehicles go up 4 ramps easily

 

[BrainThicknessVariation]

On Lexus/Toyota, the dash has the capability to display the exact ATF temperature. You need to act quick but if you read the instructions, you can do the check and be within 1-3 degrees of the required temp.

Otherwise, ya I understand what you're saying. But the option for precision is there.

 

[JeffKeryk]

On Lexus/Toyota, the dash has the capability to display the exact ATF temperature. You need to act quick but if you read the instructions, you can do the check and be within 1-3 degrees of the required temp.

Otherwise, ya I understand what you're saying. But the option for precision is there.

Can you post a link or instructions? Thanks in advance.
Time to service our GS.

 

[BrainThicknessVariation]

Problem is the Toyota procedure on this is haphazard at best. To the point where a Toyota technician on this board told me that they just measure what comes out at the dealer, and Toyota themselves have issued a TSB and a bunch of new tools themselves.

Given the number of people that have done this task without issue, I do assume the the tolerance is a bit wide.

Toyota sort of pooched this one IMHO. I presume they really don't want anyone changing the fluid anyway.

Anyone know the thermal expansion coeficient for ATF? I have read everything from 0.0001% per degree C, to 0.07%?

The process on the 2GR is pretty straightforward, actually. It really just depends on who is doing the procedure and how much they pay attention to detail.

I'm closer to a shadetree mechanic and have done it twice now. Although, I do have means to lift the car while keeping it level.

The fact that a Toyota mechanic on this board said XYZ is really more a testament to why you should avoid dealerships at all costs. No offense to that particular mechanic.

 

[BrainThicknessVariation]

Can you post a link or instructions? Thanks in advance.
Time to service our GS.

To enter fluid temperature detection mode?

I only have the instructions for the 2GR's AA81E and A760H. Basically, you jump two pins on the OBD port with a paperclip, then start the car, and quickly blip between drive and neutral with the gear lever about every 1 second.

You should find a Youtube video for the GS or else you can check this one out for the GX. The basic procedure for entering into that mode is relatively the same I think.

As for the filling procedure, I'd definitely go to TIS and get a 24 hour subscription so you can download the instructions for your specific vehicle.

Edit: if you need the entire manual for the GS and are on a Mac, I can possibly help out but you'd have to PM me. I don't want to get BITOG in trouble. Not illegal but kinda cheeky.

 

[JeffKeryk]

To enter temperature check mode?

I only have the instructions for the 2GR's AA81E and A760H. Basically, you jump two pins on the OBD port with a paperclip, then start the car, and quickly blip between drive and neutral with the gear lever about every 1 second.

You should find a Youtube video for the GS or else you can check this one out for the GX. The basic procedure for entering into that mode is relatively the same I think.

As for the filling procedure, I'd definitely go to TIS and get a 24 hour subscription so you can download the instructions for your specific vehicle.

Edit: if you need the entire manual for the GS and are on a Mac, I can possibly help out but you'd have to PM me. I don't want to get BITOG in trouble. Not illegal but kinda cheeky.

Thanks. I know about jumping the OBD II pins. I thought you meant there was an actual temperature read out.
I just use a temp gun on the pan and set the level at the lowest point in the range.

IMO there should be a read out... There is some talk that even Toyota just replaced what they drained.

 

[BrainThicknessVariation]

Thanks. I know about jumping the OBD II pins. I thought you meant there was an actual temperature read out.
I just use a temp gun on the pan and set the level at the lowest point in the range.

IMO there should be a read out... There is some talk that even Toyota just replaced what they drained.

You're right. I was confusing Techstream with the other method. The latter just flashes when it's at an acceptable temp. But you can get the exact temp with Techstream, and the knockoff ones on Amazon are cheap. You just need Windows, and if you're on a Mac, you can use VirtualBox, and the required version of Windows is free.

When I did it, I learned from experience ahead of time that it's only a few minutes from cold start - maybe 5 or less - when the "D" shift indicator starts flashing. I had a second person in the car inform me while I was under it and I worked quickly. When I did it the second time I used Techstream.

Here's the exact cable I ordered to do it. Can confirm it works.

 

[JeffKeryk]

You're right. I was confusing Techstream with the other method. The latter just flashes when it's at an acceptable temp. But you can get the exact temp with Techstream, and the knockoff ones on Amazon are cheap. You just need Windows, and if you're on a Mac, you can use VirtualBox, and the required version of Windows is free.

When I did it, I learned from experience ahead of time that it's only a few minutes from cold start - maybe 5 or less - when the "D" shift indicator starts flashing. I had a second person in the car inform me while I was under it and I worked quickly. When I did it the second time I used Techstream.

Here's the exact cable I ordered to do it. Can confirm it works.

On a Windows laptop, which software are you running? Is it an expensive purchased app, or a cheap/free one?
Thanks!