Are we over exaggerating the perfect ATF fluid level? thermal expansion seems to think we are

[BrainThicknessVariation]

On a Windows laptop, which software are you running? Is it an expensive purchased app, or a cheap/free one?
Thanks!

It's all free, minus the cost of the cable.

I'm running Windows XP 32-bit as IIRC that was the latest free version of Windows that would also work with Techstream. I'm running it on VirtualBox which you can still use w/ Windows, in order to instantiate another instance of Windows. Current version of Techstream is 12.20.024. I haven't tried to update it in a year so I can't comment on that either way until I use it again.

In your case since you have a paid version of Windows, you can probably get it to work with whatever is the latest iteration of Techstream.

 

[BlakeB]

I use an Ultragauge MX on the Tacoma and 4Runner I’m servicing.

 

[D60]

I will say if we're really talking 60ml ‐‐ and I'm not saying we are or are not -- every unit should be dead level. What's a 1 degree pitch do to fluid level? 2 degree?

I know my lift is about 1 degree off left to right due to the concrete floor.

And you can't do it with wheels weighted because most vehicles don't sit as level as you might think ‐‐ esp trucks

 

[KrisZ]

I see your point.
In computer programming, we call that "bad design".

Just my 2 cents.

It’s not a bad design if you want to steer the owners towards your dealerships service bays.

 

[KrisZ]

For anyone interested, here is an app that will show the ATF temp, and many other parameters on my Toyota and Dodge. You will need a pro license which is 6.99 or something like that.

It works with the Veepeak Bluetooth dongle


https://a.co/d/9OPlxdx

 

[artbuc]

I did not read through this thread so forgive if it was already mentioned. It is not just the thermal expansion of the fluid itself, it is also the cross sectional area at the standpipe. If the cross sectional area is constant you can consider fluid expansion only.

 

[nascarnation]

How about a simple sight glass on the side of the case with a line on the glass where the fill level should be? I mean, I know it’s futuristic but that’s like what, 1880s technology??

https://southernindustrial.store/pr...ing-visual-oil-level-kit-sight-gauge-6839183/

Based on the price, they must be making them out of some type of precious metals nowadays.

 

[John105]

Last weekend I changed the ATF in my 2021 Traverse. To plan, I had put the new ATF in the garage so it would be the same temp as the fluid in the trans. My Wife drove the car on about a 5 mile round trip, as I didn’t tell her to use another vehicle. I did the fluid drain anyway and measured the fluid at 5 quarts, 26 ounces. Guess what, after cooling down to for 24 hours (to roughly 60 degrees) it was still 5 quarts, 26 ounces.

5 quarts is only a portion of the full capacity. I think the book says only 4.2 out of 9 comes out.

 

[odie]

Like to remove A.T.F. when cold so nearer to temp of new A.T.F. in bottles stored indoors . Check COLD reading and then HOT . Like it to be 1/2 way or a bit higher between HOT and COLD after a drive of 20 miles or so .

 

[mgi7]

so moral of story is get it as close as you can to what they said in the book (they said 50c for u, u got it done at 56) and sleep well atnight considering the fluid level cant change more then 30-60ml if you set it at 50c or 56c. it could be 30-60ml overfull or 30-60ml underfilled depending on if u set ur fluid level too hot or too cold but in the end it doesnt matter as long as its not like something significant like maybe 250ml or 500ml or etc

Update on the situation: I went back for a level check at the recommended temperature. This time, the top-up was made at 41 degrees C and 500 ml was added. There were no leaks or other fluid loss, and the procedure was the same. This means that the 15-degree temperature difference resulted in a 500 ml fluid difference. This was quite surprising, as I expected it to be lower.

Between the moment of the change and now, I drove approximately 3,500 km. Everything went well, there were no signs of transmission issues. The clutch adaptation values were verified now, they were all in parameters.

 

[apollo18]

Update on the situation: I went back for a level check at the recommended temperature. This time, the top-up was made at 41 degrees C and 500 ml was added. There were no leaks or other fluid loss, and the procedure was the same. This means that the 15-degree temperature difference resulted in a 500 ml fluid difference. This was quite surprising, as I expected it to be lower.

Between the moment of the change and now, I drove approximately 3,500 km. Everything went well, there were no signs of transmission issues. The clutch adaptation values were verified now, they were all in parameters.

wow thats good to hear seems like ur particular tranny needs less fluid then prescribed which is prob why it was fine for past few months

 

[mgi7]

I don't think that it needs less fluid than prescribed. I believe that, as the fluid expanded by this much and it was summer and hot, it just got very fast up to level and didn't make a big difference. In the winter there may have been some signs of low level.

 

[Not2late]

just curious …..assuming the overflow is capped off too soon ( leaving more fluid in )
1. Does it recirculate somehow into main reservoir
2. If at later date while driving the fluid reaches higher temperature than when all earlier procedures were performed , would this expanded fluid spill over the straw and add more fluid to this reservoir ?
3. Or do they both work together .
4. Also, have never heard anyone explain what happens if both somehow get 100% full . Seems like this could be bad .
I’m more concerned about using the DIY wiring connection , when the D stays on solid , approx what time frame do I have to uncap the overflow and is it best guess to cap back at drips or per some videos I’ve seen that show a slightly noticeably difference in the fluid flow but definitely before dripping

 

[Not2late]

Also, seems like the timing decision on the trickle or dripping or drizzle in capping off overflow would account for maybe much more or less fluid than the temperature expansion. Or maybe I’m not following due to my limited understanding

 

[KrisZ]

Also, seems like the timing decision on the trickle or dripping or drizzle in capping off overflow would account for maybe much more or less fluid than the temperature expansion. Or maybe I’m not following due to my limited understanding

It’s subjective for sure, but you have to also remember that the car is running and the temperature is rising, so that trickle may be there for a long time and you will likely get outside the measurement temperature window, which is not a lot of time.

I didn’t wait for a trickle, I capped off the overflow the moment I saw the fluid coming out change from that smooth flow to the turbulent one. That was a good enough “dribble” for me.

Also, careful of how much extra fluid you put in as it will take longer to drain the excess, again risking being outside that temp window, which flees pretty fast.

 

[4WD]

I find it interesting that some think there was something wrong with the dipstick/tube on my 6L80e - I flip a pan volume of Dex-VI each spring in 20 minutes - clean job as well …
Lexus is hopeless bcs they covered the fill side port with exhaust/cat - so let’s not pretend they are wiser now …
I hate doing the Jeep

 

[4WD]

Here's how I learned that the temperature and level check procedure matters

I drained my Touareg while hot, and measured the ATF. I put in the same amount of ambient ATF.

I had to do the level check procedure 3 times, it was so overfilled.

Now I drain at ambient, measure at ambient, and fill at ambient. When the trans is up to temp I pull the plug and it's right on the money.

If you have an accurate scale and you know that the level in your transmission is properly set (no leaks, not under or overfilled, etc.), measuring by weight is probably the most accurate and fastest way to get the same back in that came out.

I normally start this on the second change where I’m more confident of the starting point - and know there have been no leaks …

 

[AJB0009]

Overthinking is what we do here on BITOG.
I had a separate thread, asking a similar questions because I was going to change the ATF in my 21 RAV4 for the first time.
My two concerns about doing it the "correct" way: not being able to get it exactly level on jack stands in my driveway and does the level change when it is just shifted into R and D a time or two, versus going for a drive and having it shift through each of the eight gears?
Like, how do I get is level? Where do I put a level? There is nothing level on this vehicle I don't think.
I am leaning towards letting it sit overnight, drain the fluid, measure it, and put the same amount back in.
Is the level exactly correct from the factory? I don't know. Has it been performing flawlessly for the last 60k miles? Yes.

 

[TiGeo]

The VW DSGs are this way, folks go crazy with the level question, if it needed to be that precise there would be a different way to do the service. Get it up/level (good enough level), drain, fill from bottom, get up to temp on scan tool, remove drain and let it drain until it spurts/drips and it's set. I've done the same though mental gymnastics..."Was that really a drip? Wait, it was kind of a steady stream...OMG, maybe it's not right!" Meanwhile, 115K and track use and it says hold my beer (so far!). Folks will get worried and do the drain/measure/fill that amount vs. the factory level-set procedure b/c of it.

 

[The Critic]

Overthinking is what we do here on BITOG.
I had a separate thread, asking a similar questions because I was going to change the ATF in my 21 RAV4 for the first time.
My two concerns about doing it the "correct" way: not being able to get it exactly level on jack stands in my driveway and does the level change when it is just shifted into R and D a time or two, versus going for a drive and having it shift through each of the eight gears?
Like, how do I get is level? Where do I put a level? There is nothing level on this vehicle I don't think.
I am leaning towards letting it sit overnight, drain the fluid, measure it, and put the same amount back in.
Is the level exactly correct from the factory? I don't know. Has it been performing flawlessly for the last 60k miles? Yes.

The idle speed will also affect fluid level. Toyota wants certain vehicles placed into idle speed control mode before performing the procedure.