Illinois 15 dollar/hr incremental raise

[ZZman]

Originally Posted by dbias
I'd rather have minimum wage at $15 than support Walmarts employees on welfare. If a can of corn does up 5 cents then so be it. Walmart spending 10's of billions on stock buy backs while we feed their workers is not good for anyone other than the Walton family.
Money flows up way more reliably than it trickles down.


Exactly

 

[ZZman]

Originally Posted by grampi
I think every time min wage goes up, so should everyone else's income, by the same amount, otherwise it diminishes the value of the training and experience gained by those who did so to better their careers...


Only if you make close to MW.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Originally Posted by StevieC
As for skills increasing leading to increased pay? Yeah not a chance.


I never said it would increase pay as in an actual increase- just that increased skills will open you up to moving up a spot on the ladder. I completely agree with the wages at that spot on the ladder being stagnant, which is why the data shows companies are moving away from hiring the lowest tier, and hiring more in the tier just above, where the minimum "working" rate is already above the actual minimum rate. Think of it this way.... if all of your workforce is at the minimum rate of say $8/hr and the minimum is increased by regulations to $12/hr, your company now has to absorb a full 50% increase in labor costs. If your workforce was at $12/hr (so above the minimum) and the minimum increased to $12/hr, there is ZERO increased cost. And again, since the workforce earning the bare minimum is now more costly to employ for the tasks they previously performed, companies are more likely to look for ways to eliminate the now much-more-costly-to-employ "basic" worker.

 

[ZZman]

Originally Posted by IndyFan


As someone else said, these entry level jobs are not meant to provide a living. They are meant to provide a start. If you kill off entry level pay like that, you'll kill off those jobs, and then kill off opportunity. Then kids like mine won't have an opportunity to learn how to work, budget, plan, and save. I don't want the government planning for them. They can do this themselves. They must. They are either in college or out on their own after high school. They know it, and because of this, they'll be just fine.


Many of these jobs are their jobs. Retail jobs are dying, manufacturing jobs went away. Other replacement jobs society needs aren't paying enough or offering benefits.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted by grampi
I think every time min wage goes up, so should everyone else's income, by the same amount, otherwise it diminishes the value of the training and experience gained by those who did so to better their careers...


My only guess on this is those who
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Originally Posted by dbias
I'd rather have minimum wage at $15 than support Walmarts employees on welfare. If a can of corn does up 5 cents then so be it. Walmart spending 10's of billions on stock buy backs while we feed their workers is not good for anyone other than the Walton family.
Money flows up way more reliably than it trickles down.

What about your grocery bill ?

$11.50 min wage is reasonable.


$11.50 depends on geography. My six figure income is really nothing special in the area I live. Cannot fathom making minimum wage around here. Experience people I know making $15-$17/hr in retail level jobs as low level manager live in a local mobile home park and not a decent one, the kind where your sheds and homes are about 15' tops from the next.

 

[ZZman]

The best countries in the world have both capitalism and a good safety net.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

If the minimum wage increases to a level where people with education and experience cannot manage to be paid more, you remove any incentive for anyone to ever do anything to improve. Why put forth any effort if Billy Bob can fail out of 8th grade, and go work at the truck stop for the same money as Sally, who finished school and is paying $600/mo in school loans because she wanted to be a dental assistant and racked up $30k in school loans?

As the minimum wage increases, so will the cost of everything. You may as well make a mental note that if wages go up 15%, all other things being equal, the cost of everything will go up 15%. I don't know how some people can't see that.

 

[ZZman]

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
If the minimum wage increases to a level where people with education and experience cannot manage to be paid more, you remove any incentive for anyone to ever do anything to improve. Why put forth any effort if Billy Bob can fail out of 8th grade, and go work at the truck stop for the same money as Sally, who finished school and is paying $600/mo in school loans because she wanted to be a dental assistant and racked up $30k in school loans?

As the minimum wage increases, so will the cost of everything. You may as well make a mental note that if wages go up 15%, all other things being equal, the cost of everything will go up 15%. I don't know how some people can't see that.


I don't think that is true. Most people pick a field that they think they would like to work in. Most people probably would not enjoy many of the low wage jobs

If people go to school/training and rack up debt they should make more than any minimum wage. That is common sense.


Yes prices would go up but there aren't a ton of low wage jobs that couldn't raise prices some to cover it. If a burger and fries, a gallon of milk, or a pair of jeans cost a little more that isn't that much. If it was a car well that would be different.

 

[StevieC]

The problem is that those making the policies and voting for certain policies haven't lived on minimum wage in the current cost of living conditions. It's easy to say what is best from higher up.

 

[DejaVue]

Originally Posted by Alfred_B

What socialism? You wouldn't recognize socialism if it slapped you in the face.

Maybe such people do recognize socialism and so want to stop even small increases of it before they can't stop it at all.
Originally Posted by Wolf359
It's funny that people are saying that the jobs are going to disappear, but unemployment is down to 4%. During the last recession, it was over 10%. Unemployment has been dropping for the last couple years.

A lot of those numbers are manipulated. Look at things like the labor participation rate to get a better picture.

It's kind of like looking at GDP numbers. There's various reasons why GDP is a rather worthless stat.
Originally Posted by HemiHawk
I don't know what the minimum wage should be, but I know it shouldn't be $7.25.

Can you think of any job anywhere that is only worth paying someone $7.25 an hour to do?
There are jobs that the main part of it is to simply be present in order to have a human there. The employee can even play on their phone while there.
Originally Posted by StevieC
I think all wages should be tied to inflation so that you get automatic increases every year for just this amount and then merit increases on top of it if you earned it. I think this would have staved off the huge amount of debt we have today in the markets where wages haven't kept up with costs

There's a whole lot of people right now who make a lot more than minimum wage who still have zero savings and can't afford to put gas in their car they bought too much of. Such people will probably have a more expensive phone and monthly phone plan than you do.

I've known people who when only being able to pay either their expensive cable TV bill that month or their mortgage that month they chose to pay the cable TV bill. Raising the minimum wage won't help such people. They need to get hit with the reality stick first.
Originally Posted by ZZman
The best countries in the world have both capitalism and a good safety net.

Those also tend to have homogeneous demographics and culture. The ones that don't use force and censorship etc in various ways to keep the country from falling apart.
Originally Posted by ZZman

If people go to school/training and rack up debt they should make more than any minimum wage. That is common sense.

It's not common sense for others to pay higher costs just because someone went to school and has debt. With that, people start going to school and racking up debt for training that has little value in the real world. And schools start offering training in absurd subjects because all of the money flowing through the system is basically guaranteed despite the results being worthless.

Just because someone has schooling/training and a large amount of debt doesn't automatically mean they have more value to society than someone who doesn't.
Originally Posted by ZZman
Who says fast food or other "lowly" jobs aren't worth more money? Try working one and see if it isn't work. Some of the hardest "workers" make low wages.

If you aren't going to agree to pay decent wages then don't complain if they need a safety net to help them. The jobs need filling.

If the jobs "need" filling, then the wages would go up naturally so people fill them.

 

[CT8]

People usually earn a salary commensurate with their skill or ability. That is whay a journeyman service tech makes more money that a kid at
jiffy lube.

 

[atikovi]

Originally Posted by DejaVue
There's a whole lot of people right now who make a lot more than minimum wage who still have zero savings and can't afford to put gas in their car they bought too much of. Such people will probably have a more expensive phone and monthly phone plan than you do.


Sounds like the govenment workers that got laid off.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by DejaVue
Originally Posted by StevieC
I think all wages should be tied to inflation so that you get automatic increases every year for just this amount and then merit increases on top of it if you earned it. I think this would have staved off the huge amount of debt we have today in the markets where wages haven't kept up with costs

There's a whole lot of people right now who make a lot more than minimum wage who still have zero savings and can't afford to put gas in their car they bought too much of. Such people will probably have a more expensive phone and monthly phone plan than you do.

I've known people who when only being able to pay either their expensive cable TV bill that month or their mortgage that month they chose to pay the cable TV bill. Raising the minimum wage won't help such people. They need to get hit with the reality stick first.


There is always going to be these folks but we can at least setup the means in case they aren't in this group.

 

[BrianF]

While I cannot really offer an opinion on the economics, what I do not agree on is this: When you increase minimum wage (to the tune that Ontario did) you really start to devalue the people who have worked hard at post secondary, worked up the corporate ladder or sacrificed a lot to get a higher paying job. I know plenty of people that went to university/tech school to get that 20$ hour wage doing skilled work. As well, as your wage rises so does your income tax.

What message does this send? When did mediocrity become ok? Minimum wage is a jumping stone, not the end all be all.

My wife, while having no post secondary worked extremely hard at jobs that most people look down on. She never made minimum wage but she has a strong work ethic and never settled for mediocrity.

I took a career that paid for the training that can instantly put a person into the middle class. I was over qualified in some respects but I worked hard to get it. I never once worked for minimum wage. Even in high school I could find work that paid better than minimum but you were expected to work hard. Just showing up and keeping a seat warm was not the ticket.

Also, if you cannot afford to live in or near a big city, then don't. There are is a world with jobs that exists outside of the city. I think spending 400K on a house just to live in a congested mess of traffic and dirty people is stupid, hence why I live out in the country near a small town.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by BrianF
While I cannot really offer an opinion on the economics, what I do not agree on is this: When you increase minimum wage (to the tune that Ontario did) you really start to devalue the people who have worked hard at post secondary, worked up the corporate ladder or sacrificed a lot to get a higher paying job. I know plenty of people that went to university/tech school to get that 20$ hour wage doing skilled work. As well, as your wage rises so does your income tax.

What message does this send? When did mediocrity become ok? Minimum wage is a jumping stone, not the end all be all.


It's the basic message of supply and demand. If you get a degree where there's more supply than demand, then there's no mystery why someone with an English degree might be working at Starbucks. It's buyer beware and that also applies to picking a major. There are many charts out there that show what the average income for various majors are. It's up to the buyer to do their own due diligence. It's also well know that roughly 50% of the people who graduate don't end up with jobs in their field.

Minimum wage does basically put a floor on the race to the bottom.

 

[billt460]

This all comes down to two things. You either support the Federal government getting mixed up in this countries private economics, or you don't. Given their track record over the long haul, I personally wouldn't want these financial nit wits to touch the control of privately earned wages with a 10 foot pole. Based on what their past financial history has all added up to.

1.) Currently a National Debt topping $22 Trillion dollars, with no end in sight. Let alone a way or means to pay any, let alone all of it off.

2.) Constant never ending, excessive, out of control deficit spending. Year after year. All of which is accomplishing nothing but adding to #1.

3.) The financial destruction of Social Security. Which would have been fine if the government would have kept their hands off all of the money that was accumulating in it. Which by now would have been self supporting had they not robbed it, and stuffed it full of paper I.O.U.'s.

4.) The financial destruction of Medicare. Which has been financially train wrecked by much the same. Along with piling everyone and their brother on it, along with it's sister program Medicaid. Which now, many of these same nit wits have come up with the brilliant idea to pile everyone on. All in some dimwitted attempt to administer, "free health care" for everyone.

5.) The "Great Society" implemented in 1965. Which in addition to Medicare, includes well over $4 Trillion dollars wasted on Welfare alone. ($22 Trillion total). All designed and implemented to supposedly help lift America's poor out of poverty. Yet another costly Federal financial disaster. That has not lowered the poverty level one point in the last 54 years it's been in play. And instead has managed to help make millions of people government dependent for an endless period of time.

And now after all this, you have shortsighted people who seem to think they want this same government, who has caused this financial hurricane Katrina, to start screwing around with wages. And control an even greater portion of the nations economy. That they have proven over and over to screw up so well in the past decades. No thanks. How many planes are you going to allow one pilot to crash before you ground him?

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by DejaVue
There's a whole lot of people right now who make a lot more than minimum wage who still have zero savings and can't afford to put gas in their car they bought too much of. Such people will probably have a more expensive phone and monthly phone plan than you do.


Sounds like the govenment workers that got laid off.

There is no such thing as getting laid off for gov employees...

 

[grampi]

I could see minimum wage being raised a bit to compensate for inflation, but not $15 an hour. Minimum wage jobs should be viewed as a temporary stepping stone into the work force, a place holder until the person educates themselves for a skilled trade that's in demand. Minimum wage never has been, nor should it be, considered a living wage. The onus is on the individual to better themselves so they can earn a living wage. It isn't the responsibility of employers, the government, or society to provide everyone with a comfy lifestyle....that has to be earned...

 

[Killer223]

those idiots in My city did this as well. it's crippled our city, all the "good" jobs left town and moved either to county or left and closed up shop.
you can't vote yourself wealth, you have to earn it. now most are realizing they voted them selves out of a job.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted by Killer223
those idiots in My city did this as well. it's crippled our city, all the "good" jobs left town and moved either to county or left and closed up shop.
you can't vote yourself wealth, you have to earn it. now most are realizing they voted them selves out of a job.

And which city is this? AZ's minimum wage is only $11 an hour.