Illinois 15 dollar/hr incremental raise

[ZZman]

Originally Posted by Skippy722


You cannot tax people into prosperity. Illinois is hemorrhaging people to Indiana because of property taxes alone. Can't "spread the wealth" when all the wealth leaves.


Who said prosperity? Would 15.00 an hour or food stamps or Medicaid help be prosperity? No, it would be a fairly decent existence. Every American deserves a decent existence becsuse they are humans.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by grampi


So would I, but the question is, how do we get the people at the bottom closer to the top? Is it society's responsibility to mandate higher wages at the bottom, or is it the individual's responsibility to make themselves marketable for higher paying jobs? I believe it's the latter...


Absolutely make yourself marketable for really good jobs. But some can't or won't for any number of reasons. How much should fellow Americans suffer at the bottom?


Those at the bottom will stay there until being there becomes more unbearable than what they need to do to move up. Rich people got rich because they made themselves that way. Society didn't give them their riches. Income redistribution isn't the answer...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by Skippy722


You cannot tax people into prosperity. Illinois is hemorrhaging people to Indiana because of property taxes alone. Can't "spread the wealth" when all the wealth leaves.


Who said prosperity? Would 15.00 an hour or food stamps or Medicaid help be prosperity? No, it would be a fairly decent existence. Every American deserves a decent existence becsuse they are humans.


Again, a decent existence is owed to no one. You want a comfy life? Earn it like everyone else has to. Those who absolutely can't do for themselves such as the mentally or physically disabled should be taken care of, but other than that, people need to work their way up through the system...

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by Skippy722


You cannot tax people into prosperity. Illinois is hemorrhaging people to Indiana because of property taxes alone. Can't "spread the wealth" when all the wealth leaves.


Who said prosperity? Would 15.00 an hour or food stamps or Medicaid help be prosperity? No, it would be a fairly decent existence. Every American deserves a decent existence becsuse they are humans.


If you're smart with your money one can get by just fine on $15 a hour, even pretty comfortably.

 

[ZZman]

Originally Posted by grampi

Those at the bottom will stay there until being there becomes more unbearable than what they need to do to move up. Rich people got rich because they made themselves that way. Society didn't give them their riches. Income redistribution isn't the answer...


How exactly are these poor people supposed to be able to afford an education or have the experience or connections to get that better job? How can they afford to move to where jobs are?

The rich as most successful people got there with help. Parents, mentors, teachers, connections etc. The difference is some have more drive, are bigger risk takers, are type A personalities etc. Humans are all different. Some will be extremely successful , most successful, some not successful. As I said earlier, how much do we want those at the bottom to suffer?
Does the Walton family really need more billions each or could that be put to better use by their employees that need it just to live?

 

[ZZman]

The sad part is a lot of people today think that $15 an hour isn't a bad wage when it is actually mediocre.

 

[newtoncd8]

Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by grampi


Those at the bottom will stay there until being there becomes more unbearable than what they need to do to move up. Rich people got rich because they made themselves that way. Society didn't give them their riches. Income redistribution isn't the answer...


How exactly are these poor people supposed to be able to afford an education or have the experience or connections to get that better job? How can they afford to move to where jobs are?


Interesting discussion/question: My dad was a school teacher with four children and while we had necessities, we didn't have a lot beyond that. When it came time for college, he made just enough where Federal assistance (grants) wasn't readily available and because he was saving for retirement and had other kids in college, he wasn't able to help financially.

I joined the military (no others in my family had military experience), took advantage of the GI Bill/tuition assistance and completed my B.S. with very little out of pocket. During that time, I had multiple separations from family (deployments, remote assignments, military schooling, etc), but took that training, experience and education and now live where I wanted to live (greater Denver area) on a solid career path and hope to retire at age 55. It wasn't easy, but life isn't easy.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by ZZman

Does the Walton family really need more billions each or could that be put to better use by their employees that need it just to live?


In 2015 the Walton's made an estimated $3.2 billion in dividends. Now, let's say they had a huge change of heart and broke that evenly up upon ALL 2.1 million employees. That'd be $1,523.81 per employee as a lump sum before taxes. Or an extra $29.30 a week assuming all employees are working 30 hours a week.

"But skippy, Walmart raked in $500 billion in 2018!"

True. But after taxes, operating expenses etc etc they made $9.862 billion. So, even if we divided that equally among all employees we get a lump sum of $4,286.96 per employee.

While not insignificant sums, it's not life changing either.

 

[wings&wheels]

Quote

How exactly are these poor people supposed to be able to afford an education or have the experience or connections to get that better job? How can they afford to move to where jobs are?

The rich as most successful people got there with help. Parents, mentors, teachers, connections etc. The difference is some have more drive, are bigger risk takers, are type A personalities etc. Humans are all different. Some will be extremely successful , most successful, some not successful. As I said earlier, how much do we want those at the bottom to suffer?
Does the Walton family really need more billions each or could that be put to better use by their employees that need it just to live?



Through hard work, good decisions, ambition and some luck.... Done it.

 

[Alfred_B]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by ZZman

Does the Walton family really need more billions each or could that be put to better use by their employees that need it just to live?


In 2015 the Walton's made an estimated $3.2 billion in dividends. Now, let's say they had a huge change of heart and broke that evenly up upon ALL 2.1 million employees. That'd be $1,523.81 per employee as a lump sum before taxes. Or an extra $29.30 a week assuming all employees are working 30 hours a week.

"But skippy, Walmart raked in $500 billion in 2018!"

True. But after taxes, operating expenses etc etc they made $9.862 billion. So, even if we divided that equally among all employees we get a lump sum of $4,286.96 per employee.

While not insignificant sums, it's not life changing either.

Salaries are a before tax expenses. Dividends and net income are after tax. So the value would be higher.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted by wings&wheels
Quote

How exactly are these poor people supposed to be able to afford an education or have the experience or connections to get that better job? How can they afford to move to where jobs are?

The rich as most successful people got there with help. Parents, mentors, teachers, connections etc. The difference is some have more drive, are bigger risk takers, are type A personalities etc. Humans are all different. Some will be extremely successful , most successful, some not successful. As I said earlier, how much do we want those at the bottom to suffer?
Does the Walton family really need more billions each or could that be put to better use by their employees that need it just to live?



Through hard work, good decisions, ambition and some luck.... Done it.


Same here.

It would certainly have been much easier to sit around and do nothing but bemoan the fact that life has never been easy, and blame others for my own inaction.

 

[wings&wheels]

[/quote]



Same here.

[/quote]

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by PimTac
When they did this in WA state, businesses started to reduce employee numbers or their hours. The restaurant industry felt the effects very strongly.

There is always an opposite effect on stuff like this.

Apparently not? It was studied by Berkeley https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...t-impact-jobs-in-6-us-cities-study-shows



Berkeley... Yeah they are real independent minded, not strongly leaning and credible

Come on now.... Start thinking.... That would be like someone quoting a source from the other side with the 180 different view point....

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by Alfred_B
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by ZZman

Does the Walton family really need more billions each or could that be put to better use by their employees that need it just to live?


In 2015 the Walton's made an estimated $3.2 billion in dividends. Now, let's say they had a huge change of heart and broke that evenly up upon ALL 2.1 million employees. That'd be $1,523.81 per employee as a lump sum before taxes. Or an extra $29.30 a week assuming all employees are working 30 hours a week.

"But skippy, Walmart raked in $500 billion in 2018!"

True. But after taxes, operating expenses etc etc they made $9.862 billion. So, even if we divided that equally among all employees we get a lump sum of $4,286.96 per employee.

While not insignificant sums, it's not life changing either.

Salaries are a before tax expenses. Dividends and net income are after tax. So the value would be higher.


Yeah, but their effective tax rate was around 29% so it's not like it'd be that much higher.

https://csimarket.com/stocks/singleProfitabilityRatios.php?code=WMT&itx

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by ZZman
The sad part is a lot of people today think that $15 an hour isn't a bad wage when it is actually mediocre.

It's because those making the policies don't have to live on it and remember the "good old days" where $1.00/hr was enough.

 

[Aichiguy]

If a government gets involved with wages (which should never happen) the minimum wage should be replaced with a maximum wage. A minimum wage is just a theater. It affects very few people as it is now and is not a liveable wage. Why would anyone be content with it save for a part-timer? These higher min wage levels just add cost to goods and services and cause many of them to become undesirable for the price putting some job creators out of business.
Economies cycle. Right now in the Midwest there are more jobs than people. Especially for those who show up, do what they are told, and work towards promotion. Government is not the problem or solution.

 

[ZZman]

Originally Posted by wings&wheels



Through hard work, good decisions, ambition and some luck.... Done it.


Never said it wasn't possible. It is. It just isn't the norm. Just like all the things you listed don't make most people rich either. It could, but isn't the norm.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by grampi

Those at the bottom will stay there until being there becomes more unbearable than what they need to do to move up. Rich people got rich because they made themselves that way. Society didn't give them their riches. Income redistribution isn't the answer...


How exactly are these poor people supposed to be able to afford an education or have the experience or connections to get that better job? How can they afford to move to where jobs are?

The rich as most successful people got there with help. Parents, mentors, teachers, connections etc. The difference is some have more drive, are bigger risk takers, are type A personalities etc. Humans are all different. Some will be extremely successful , most successful, some not successful. As I said earlier, how much do we want those at the bottom to suffer?
Does the Walton family really need more billions each or could that be put to better use by their employees that need it just to live?


There are many ways to get an education, grants, loans, heck you can even join the military and get an education for free while getting an income. It doesn't matter if people like us think the Walton family doesn't need any more money. They've obviously done something to earn it or they wouldn't have it. That's called capitalism. What you're describing is socialism, that doesn't work in this country...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by PimTac
When they did this in WA state, businesses started to reduce employee numbers or their hours. The restaurant industry felt the effects very strongly.

There is always an opposite effect on stuff like this.

Apparently not? It was studied by Berkeley https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...t-impact-jobs-in-6-us-cities-study-shows



Berkeley... Yeah they are real independent minded, not strongly leaning and credible

Come on now.... Start thinking.... That would be like someone quoting a source from the other side with the 180 different view point....


Berkley...where all of their graduates live in their parent's basements...

 

[ZZman]

Originally Posted by grampi


There are many ways to get an education, grants, loans, heck you can even join the military and get an education for free while getting an income. It doesn't matter if people like us think the Walton family doesn't need any more money. They've obviously done something to earn it or they wouldn't have it. That's called capitalism. What you're describing is socialism, that doesn't work in this country...


For some yes. For others no. Bad grades, no co signers, no one to watch the kids, can't pass the military testing, health or emotional issues. ..etc

No , I am describing a capitalism that works for everyone not greed that works for the few. Do you think the top billionaires having as much wealth as the bottom 90% is acceptable capitalism?

But you do realize we have socialism type things here in this country people like right?