Originally Posted by ZZman
Seems a capitalism system helped get us into this financial mess too. As did wars and other things. No seriously, where would you make cuts to reduce the deficit. Would you raise revenue at all?
Illinois 15 dollar/hr incremental raise
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You have rebutted nothing I have put forth in regards to the implementation of socialism, with ANY FACTS that prove otherwise. You are doing nothing but droning the same nonsense over and over. I'm done with both you and this topic. I have already told you, and proven to you in detail, several posts ago you are living in an economic fantasy world that does not, and will never exist. You are never going to accept that, regardless of how many times it is economically and / or mathematically proven to you. Further discussion is pointless.
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by ZZman
Seems a capitalism system helped get us into this financial mess too. As did wars and other things. No seriously, where would you make cuts to reduce the deficit. Would you raise revenue at all?
If you pay the same rate, you are giving up the same proportion of your pie. If you are paying a higher rate, you are being expected to give up more of what you earned.
Also, many conflate income with wealth tax. We see people cite how much wealth someone has. We don't have wealth taxes. How much someone has from prior earnings is irrelevant because, that money has already been taxed when it was income.
If a taxpayer is not paying the highest marginal rate, they got a tax cut. I don't understand why those taxpayers would cry when other taxpayers, those who were paying higher rates, are suddenly sad that others are treated more like they were being treated by the income tax system.
A flat tax would only be fair as if everybody made the same amount. A person making $30,000 paying a 10% tax makes a lot harder to live on than someone making a million dollars paying 10% tax. The simple fact is the more money you make the more money you have to live on regardless of the tax that you pay in a progressive system.
Nope.
Everybody paying the same tax rate is as fair as it gets.
What we have now is a progressively punitive tax rate. Although I did get a tax break this year, Thank You President Trump, I'm still paying far too high a percentage rate.
When I was working for minimum wage, I was determined to not stay at that pay rate. So I did what millions of others do, I learned new skills and furthered my education, so that eventually I would be able to earn more money.
How is it punitive? Don't you still have far more wealth and income than most people after paying your taxes?
Did paying a higher tax rate stop you from wanting to be successful or start your own company? I bet the answer is no.
If progressive taxes are punitive than low wages are punitive.
Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by 02SE
As for taxes, a truly 'fair' tax would be a flat tax. Of course that would mean that lots of people would finally have to contribute, and the evil people that worked really hard and succeeded, would get a massive tax break.
Originally Posted by ZZman
I think more in terms of common good/Quality of life. Others think in terms of individual/family good.
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Originally Posted by javacontour
We don't have wealth taxes.
Had to post this and inject some humor...hope I d/n cross the line.
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/02/full-2933-30614-bbtx51p.jpg)
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by DejaVue
Originally Posted by ZZman
I do think I would like places like Canada and the Scandinavian countries.
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by billt460
In "decades gone by", people EARNED their "piece of the pie". They didn't expect the government to steal it for them from someone else. You didn't have people leeching off the government with every social program known to mankind. People pulled their own weight. The only people back then who received benefits from Social Security were the people who actually contributed and paid into those programs.
And there was no Medicare, Obama Care, Welfare, Food Stamps, and all the rest of the government dependent nonsense that started in 1965 with the, "Great Society". All of which have improved nothing, except to make people less dependent on themselves, and more on the government that is going bankrupt trying to pay for it all.
Kids worked their way through college, instead of taking out loans, only to default on them. All the while screaming how the government, "owes them" a free education, job, house, health care, along with everything else they think they deserve. That they base only on the fact they consume oxygen. Back then people paid their own way, and those who came here from south of the border did so legally. And they obeyed our laws when they got here.
Today it has all changed into a free for all, that is bankrupting this nation. And none of it is going to be paid for by, "taxing the rich". Who as of last year, the top 1 percent of accounted for more income taxes paid than the bottom 90 percent combined. Yeah, the "decades gone by" were pretty good years alright, because people provided for themselves. Then came liberalism. And look what happened.
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by billt460
In "decades gone by", people EARNED their "piece of the pie". They didn't expect the government to steal it for them from someone else. You didn't have people leeching off the government with every social program known to mankind. People pulled their own weight. The only people back then who received benefits from Social Security were the people who actually contributed and paid into those programs.
And there was no Medicare, Obama Care, Welfare, Food Stamps, and all the rest of the government dependent nonsense that started in 1965 with the, "Great Society". All of which have improved nothing, except to make people less dependent on themselves, and more on the government that is going bankrupt trying to pay for it all.
Kids worked their way through college, instead of taking out loans, only to default on them. All the while screaming how the government, "owes them" a free education, job, house, health care, along with everything else they think they deserve. That they base only on the fact they consume oxygen. Back then people paid their own way, and those who came here from south of the border did so legally. And they obeyed our laws when they got here.
Today it has all changed into a free for all, that is bankrupting this nation. And none of it is going to be paid for by, "taxing the rich". Who as of last year, the top 1 percent of accounted for more income taxes paid than the bottom 90 percent combined. Yeah, the "decades gone by" were pretty good years alright, because people provided for themselves. Then came liberalism. And look what happened.
Originally Posted by Wolf359
I do feel bad for some of the blue collar workers who are my tenants. When people go on and on about how hard the rich work, well I don't consider myself rich, but I basically sit on my butt and do nothing and the money comes in from rentals and investments. And it's way more than anyone making minimum wage. But I didn't work hard for it. What does it mean when reality doesn't jibe with dogma/philosophy?
![[Linked Image]](https://media.giphy.com/media/145h77wVHg6i4g/giphy.gif)
"In "decades gone by", people EARNED their "piece of the pie". They didn't expect the government to steal it for them from someone else. You didn't have people leeching off the government with every social program known to mankind. People pulled their own weight. The only people back then who received benefits from Social Security were the people who actually contributed and paid into those programs.
And there was no Medicare, Obama Care, Welfare, Food Stamps, and all the rest of the government dependent nonsense that started in 1965 with the, "Great Society". All of which have improved nothing, except to make people less dependent on themselves, and more on the government that is going bankrupt trying to pay for it all."
Exactly. What we had back then was family. When someone in your family fell on hard times you helped them out.
Originally Posted by doitmyself
However, based on many threads here, most successful BITOGers had the "uphill both ways, thru 3 feet of snow, shoeless" upbringing. These type of threads sure seems to bring out the chest beaters (those above age 25 that still have the need to tell everyone else how well they are doing and how the did it).....sorry for the curmudgeon remark, LOL.
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Originally Posted by grampi
I do agree with your point to an extent. The wage gap between blue collar and white collar workers has grown over the last several decades...I don't remember the ratio, but it has grown A LOT! I believe the upper levels should make more than the worker bees, but not at the gap we have now...I am not advocating income redistribution though...if someone can figure out a way to do this and still operate within a capitalistic society he/she would become our next president...
Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by grampi
I do agree with your point to an extent. The wage gap between blue collar and white collar workers has grown over the last several decades...I don't remember the ratio, but it has grown A LOT! I believe the upper levels should make more than the worker bees, but not at the gap we have now...I am not advocating income redistribution though...if someone can figure out a way to do this and still operate within a capitalistic society he/she would become our next president...
Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by grampi
I do agree with your point to an extent. The wage gap between blue collar and white collar workers has grown over the last several decades...I don't remember the ratio, but it has grown A LOT! I believe the upper levels should make more than the worker bees, but not at the gap we have now...I am not advocating income redistribution though...if someone can figure out a way to do this and still operate within a capitalistic society he/she would become our next president...
Originally Posted by wings&wheels
And good for them and as well they should. I'll put myself in that camp and I also truly, truly enjoy hearing others' stories of self made success in the face of adversity. I find the stories inspirational. Beats hearing justifications of why some feel entitled to the hard earned assets of others, but nothing wrong with a healthy debate. Now I will get off my curmudgeon soapbox.
Yea, I'm in the camp too. Started working about age 11 and the rest is history.....enjoying the roller coaster.Wolf..
You had to have worked for your investments and rental properties... Did some random stranger just stroll up to you one day and say hey... You want some free number2 like properties and investments??? I highly highly doubt it...
And you feel bad for those people.... Would consider dropping their cost by say 20-30 percent per month?? Which I bet would be substantial for them and you of course.. Would that be ok for you fiscally??
Originally Posted by bbhero
Wolf..
You had to have worked for your investments and rental properties... Did some random stranger just stroll up to you one day and say hey... You want some free number2 like properties and investments??? I highly highly doubt it...
And you feel bad for those people.... Would consider dropping their cost by say 20-30 percent per month?? Which I bet would be substantial for them and you of course.. Would that be ok for you fiscally??
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