If xw30 oils all fall under the same viscosity @ 100C...

[jjbula]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Troxell:

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Yeah right it will

...in such a case this would bring us back to the original question posed by Oz. I actually asked Mobil1 that same question a while back and they did not answer me, they gave out some other info to avoid the question.
I agree with Patman and Molakule. Yes it does provide lower protection. Even in synth (though not as significant). Also has much higher volatility and more smaller molecules. As shown on John S's TGA scans on vwvortex.com.
Red Line can admit to this fact, and actually states so on their website. Why can't Mobil1?[/QUOTE]

I liked those charts from Jon S. Great comparison tool.
However, the dramatic looking curves may not be the end all.

M1 5w30 has a Noack, so I'm told, of 13
M1 10w30 has a Noack of 8.8

Big difference? I wonder. In 60-100K how much different will the crankcase will look?

Will a good dose of Auto-Rx clean out the higher Noack oils varnish and deposits? I'm betting it will.

[ August 13, 2002, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: jjbula ]

 

[JonS]

Patman,
A lot of straight weights pour at -30c. Havoline sae30 for one is pours at -30c. You would never want to use this at -30c. I think the oil that is poured for a sae30 is a much thicker glob than a 5w-30. Pour point is just some movement in 5 seconds isn't it? It doesn't mean that the fluid moverd is thin. Pumping properties is more important as msparks said.

 

[Patman]

True, but a number of years back I put some Mobil 1 5w30 and 10w30 outside on a very cold night (well below 0F) along with some dino oils. When I poured out the Mobil 1s, they flowed very well, and I really couldn't see a difference between the two viscosities. It was about as cold as it could possibly get up here at the time too, and both oils flowed so well that I was never worried about running either of them in the coldest of our weather. And since Schaeffers 10w30 has similar specs to Mobil 1 in terms of cold weather performance, I'm also not worried about using that this winter. I will also put a quart of Schaeffers outside on a cold night (I'll hide it so nobody steals it on me!)

and see how it flows. As long as it doesn't pour like molasses I won't be worried. Remember too, inside the engine on that same cold night the oil will probably be a bit warmer too, since it's better shielded from the elements than a thin plastic bottle would be.

 

[Tommy]

Good point Jon but..... if the 10W30 blend that MolaKule listed has a pour point of -33F, then it tells me that the Havoline SAE 30 should perform similarily.

 

[icruse]

Originally posted by jjbula:

M1 5w30 has a Noack, so I'm told, of 8
M1 10w30 has a Noack of 12

jjbula,
Per Mobil technical rep department 8/02:
M1 5W30 Noack: 13%, HTHS 3.1
M1 10W30 Noack: 8.8 % HTHS 3.2

Good Day,
Steven

 

[msparks]

quote:

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Originally posted by Spector:
We have also forgotten about price. At least in the case of Amsoil the 0W30 is $2/quart more then the 5W or 10W30. This price differencial has not been justified to me as I have seen no diff in anything (mpg, oil analysis results etc.) to make a case for the 0W. Perhaps if I lived in MN,, Maine or Alaska.

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Whats the difference in price over the coarse of a year? Not much I say.

 

[Spector]

True, the cost if you change once per year is $12 approx. But why spend $12 when there is no difference in performance/protection/mileage etc. Again, did not see any but if the user sees $12 savings in gas due to increase fine then it would be worth it to them I just never saw the diff. in anything to justify the cost over the 5W or 10W

 

[bill99gxe]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:
Oz, I believe it is pretty significant. Why you ask? Well, whenever I look at a 5w30 oil analysis,
I see that 9 times out of 10 that oil has thinned out to a 20wt (or pretty close to it). With
10w30 I don't see that too often. So therefore that means the 5w30 has more VI improvers,
since they are breaking down and causing the oil to thin.

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I'll have to back Patman up on this one.

I have fairly extensive results on Maximas in general on my spreadsheet, most of which used Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic. Nearly all of them came back with viscosities in the 55 to 60 range at 212 F. That's anywhere from well within the 20 weight range to on the top of the 20 weight range.

The only oils in my results that consistently displayed viscosities in the low to mid 60s as they should be for a strong xW30 oil is ULX-110 and Amsoil.

There are also some vehicles in there that switched from Tri-Synthetic to Amsoil for example where you can see those viscosity readings go up several percent.

 

[TooSlick]

Bill,

Amsoil formulates their xw-30 synthetics at the upper end of the 30wt range (11-12 Cst) in order to meet the more stringent ACEA requirements for high temp/high shear viscosity. So they tend to stay in grade better, even with a small amount of polymer shearing ....

Ted

 

[dragboat]

Quote:'
"Per Mobil technical rep department 8/02:
M1 5W30 Noack: 13%, HTHS 3.1
M1 10W30 Noack: 8.8 % HTHS 3.2"

Interesting.

Pennzoil Purebase
5/30 -44F pour point 3.1 HTHS NOAK 15
10/30 -33F pourpoint 3.2 HTHS NOACK 15

Is a Noak difference between that 8.8 vs 15 that signifigant?

 

[TooSlick]

Dragboat,

If the Noack volatilities are within 10% of each other and the oil is the same SAE grade, I don' think you are going to see much difference in oil consumption and/or engine deposits. If one is 50% higher as is the case here, I do think there are advantages in going with the oil that has the better Noack value. The Amsoil 0w-30 has a higher Noack than their 5w-30, but I haven't noticed any difference in oil consumption. I think it also depends how resistant the oil is to oxidation in the crankcase.

The Noack rating will give you some idea of how thermally stable the basestock and additive chemistry is....The PAO and Ester basestocks will have the lowest evaporation rates at operating temperatures.

Ted