ICE vehicles will be 75% of US car market in 2025

[Brons2]

Total US new car sales in 2024 were just under 16M units - which is at or above average in the period from 2006 I would guess by the graph below. This is at a time when interest rates are higher than any time since 2006 and vehicle prices are clearly at all time high's.

So as much as I would like to say your correct, it appears from the numbers are not.

Also, from the same math, they sold approximately 100,000 more EV's than last year, and 268,000 more ICE vehicles than the prior year.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TOTALSA

One thing that might normalize the data is population growth. How many more people are in the USA in 2025 than were here in 2006? I would guess in the tens of millions without consulting a web search engine.

 

[SC Maintenance]

One thing that might normalize the data is population growth. How many more people are in the USA in 2025 than were here in 2006? I would guess in the tens of millions without consulting a web search engine.

Thats valid, but how far do you want to go back? One year or 10?

Compared to last year, my guess is population growth - for people likely to buy a new car - was flat to negative - for all the reasons you pointed out - if your not in the top 20% you have no money.

Overall population grew a fair bit. Used car prices are heading up, so I think you see it there.

 

[alarmguy]

Total US new car sales in 2024 were just under 16M units - which is at or above average in the period from 2006 I would guess by the graph below. This is at a time when interest rates are higher than any time since 2006 and vehicle prices are clearly at all time high's.

So as much as I would like to say your correct, it appears from the numbers are not.

Also, from the same math, they sold approximately 100,000 more EV's than last year, and 268,000 more ICE vehicles than the prior year.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TOTALSA

Well, honestly, we had the market crash coming up fast peaking 2008 and we had covid in 2020 and its multi year lag.
But with these aberrations we are still selling the same amount of cars going back decades the chart shows from the year 2000 and the numbers are still the same and higher as they are today.
I do agree they are climbing which is good but I am kind of surprised once I looked at the chart. One has to remember there are 58 MILLION more Americans than in the year 2000 and car sales really haven't changed, even with insane long loan terms known today.

Im not sure the reason but I personally feel car prices are out of hand and we will hit a hard ceiling until prices come down. The reason being, the consumer is max'd out on the car loan. I cant see auto loans for more that 8 years become commonplace. Americans now borrow on average for 6 years to buy a car and loans now up to 8 years is not uncommon. 4.5% of them are now 90 days late. What I am saying is, the public will be forced to stop spending excess money on cars because they are hitting a ceiling on how many years they can take out these insane loans.
I mean people are like rodents, they just cant say no, nor can they critically think how much the car is actually costing them. It amazes me to no end.

Im not sure what I am saying other than at some point the consumer will no longer be able to extend the terms of the loan. I cant believe what people borrow but ... not even sure of the reason I am posting. I got up late today... and still drinking coffee *LOL*

SO we have this chart and there are 58 million more Americans and an average loan term now 24 months longer then the early 2000s

Back in 2000 (and the early 2000's the average loan was 48 months.

 

[JordanR]

If the new administration makes the moves I expect them to make, new and used EV sales in the USA are going to quickly tank. Currently, the EPA requires all automakers to meet strict (and ever stricter) fuel economy standards, and the OEMs use EVs to improve the average MPG across the board. Trump has made statements that lead many to believe that he will ease up on those EPA standards. If these standards are relaxed, there's much less pressure on the OEMs to invest in and produce EVs to offset the high profit "gas guzzlers" they are most focused on. The retail/consumer incentives to purchase EVs will likely disappear as well, as will massive investments by the government to increase EV charging infrastructure. The Biden administration has forced the automakers into the "EV Zone" and this has spawned both US and foreign based companies to commit to spending tens of billions of dollars to build EV battery plants in the US to increase "domestic component content" into those vehicles. If the OEMs are given free reign of what they want to build and sell (which is based on sales volume and profit margins), it's a given that the production of ICE vehicles will increase and EVs will decrease, based primarily on waning consumer demand due to higher EV prices, less availability, and lack of rebates/incentives. And since much of what goes into EVs is derived from China, I expect tariffs to increase component and material costs, which will further increase the selling price of those cars. Even if EV prices increase 30% or more, there will still be consumers willing to spend the money, albeit far less of them than what's currently being sold. And all of this will have a chilling effect on used EV pricing, which will increase lease prices due to high depreciation and make some new EV buyers wary. It will be interesting to see how things will change once all the chips fall into place, and I expect it will be apparent fairly quickly, based on the aggressiveness of the "new team" that will be in place next week.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Well, honestly, we had the market crash coming up fast peaking 2008 and we had covid in 2020 and its multi year lag.
But with these aberrations we are still selling the same amount of cars going back decades the chart shows from the year 2000 and the numbers are still the same and higher as they are today.
I do agree they are climbing which is good but I am kind of surprised once I looked at the chart. One has to remember there are 58 MILLION more Americans than in the year 2000 and car sales really haven't changed, even with insane long loan terms known today.

Im not sure the reason but I personally feel car prices are out of hand and we will hit a hard ceiling until prices come down. The reason being, the consumer is max'd out on the car loan. I cant see auto loans for more that 8 years become commonplace. Americans now borrow on average for 6 years to buy a car and loans now up to 8 years is not uncommon. 4.5% of them are now 90 days late. What I am saying is, the public will be forced to stop spending excess money on cars because they are hitting a ceiling on how many years they can these insane loans.
I mean people are like rodents, they just cant say no, nor can they critically think how much the car is actually costing them. It amazes me to no end.

Im not sure what I am saying other than at some point the consumer will no longer be able to extend the terms of the loan. I cant believe what people borrow but ... not even sure of the reason I am posting. I got up late today... and still drinking coffee *LOL*

SO we have this chart and there are 58 million more Americans and an average loan term now 24 months longer then the early 2000s
Back in 2000 (and the early 2000's the average loan was 48 months.

Your topic may be correct (people are definitely not as well off), but your mixing apples and oranges.

Why I asked - are we comparing 1 year or 10?

Auto sales grew last year - full stop. We had 267,000 additional ICE vehicles and 100,000 additional EV's. growth, on 16,000,000 sales. Clearly EV's are not taking over. Possibly yet? But its not the economy or whatever. Most people don't differentiate. EV, hybrid, ICE, - most don't care. They just want to go somewhere.

No one is lining up for used EV's either. Its the opposite.

 

[Brons2]

Well, honestly, we had the market crash coming up fast peaking 2008 and we had covid in 2020 and its multi year lag.
But with these aberrations we are still selling the same amount of cars going back decades the chart shows from the year 2000 and the numbers are still the same and higher as they are today.
I do agree they are climbing which is good but I am kind of surprised once I looked at the chart. One has to remember there are 58 MILLION more Americans than in the year 2000 and car sales really haven't changed, even with insane long loan terms known today.

Im not sure the reason but I personally feel car prices are out of hand and we will hit a hard ceiling until prices come down. The reason being, the consumer is max'd out on the car loan. I cant see auto loans for more that 8 years become commonplace. Americans now borrow on average for 6 years to buy a car and loans now up to 8 years is not uncommon. 4.5% of them are now 90 days late. What I am saying is, the public will be forced to stop spending excess money on cars because they are hitting a ceiling on how many years they can these insane loans.
I mean people are like rodents, they just cant say no, nor can they critically think how much the car is actually costing them. It amazes me to no end.

Im not sure what I am saying other than at some point the consumer will no longer be able to extend the terms of the loan. I cant believe what people borrow but ... not even sure of the reason I am posting. I got up late today... and still drinking coffee *LOL*

SO we have this chart and there are 58 million more Americans and an average loan term now 24 months longer then the early 2000s
View attachment 258812Back in 2000 (and the early 2000's the average loan was 48 months.

It's not just you, a lot of people agree that car prices are out of hand in the USA. I mean the average new car prices at $48K are over 50% of the median yearly household income in the US which I did a web search to show is $80,020 for 2024.

Some other Googling indcated the "middle class" is considered to be from $40,010 to $160,040 per year, the average new car price is over 100% of the lower end of that.

We've built our cities around the car. We need affordable cars for the masses.

 

[SC Maintenance]

It's not just you, a lot of people agree that car prices are out of hand in the USA. I mean the average new car prices at $48K are over 50% of the median yearly household income in the US which I did a web search to show is $80,020 for 2024.

Some other Googling indcated the "middle class" is considered to be from $40,010 to $160,040 per year, the average new car price is over 100% of the lower end of that.

We've built our cities around the car. We need affordable cars for the masses.

Average prices can be misleading - they get skewed on the tail. Median might be better?

In 1984, Median household income was around $22K (as far back as FRED goes). A base Chevy Cavalier started at $6500 (about 30% of income) Was the most popular car that year.

If Median household income is now $80K, 30% = $26,400. You can buy a Corolla or many other cars for that.

Nothings changed honestly, other possibly than preference. No one wants a Corolla.

Shelter, healthcare and educations costs have gone way up. People have way less at the end of the month. Car prices are not the reason.

 

[Brons2]

Your topic may be correct (people are definitely not as well off), but your mixing apples and oranges.

Why I asked - are we comparing 1 year or 10?

Auto sales grew last year - full stop. We had 267,000 additional ICE vehicles and 100,000 additional EV's. growth, on 16,000,000 sales. Clearly EV's are not taking over. Possibly yet? But its not the economy or whatever. Most people don't differentiate. EV, hybrid, ICE, - most don't care. They just want to go somewhere.

No one is lining up for used EV's either. Its the opposite.

Battery costs are still relatively high, although much less than 5-10 years ago. With active exploration going in for battery metals and alternate chemistries being researched across the globe, as well as production beginning to achieve efficiencies of scale, at least in China, it can be assured that cost will continue to decline.

Then there is the politization of the overall topic of EVs, which I won't get into here because it's against the rules, but surely affects sales in the US and to a lesser extent in other regions.

When batteries can be made cheaply, it will be a game changer for EV sales. China is going to figure it out, the only question is, will our domestic manufacturers be in a position to compete or not?

 

[alarmguy]

It's not just you, a lot of people agree that car prices are out of hand in the USA. I mean the average new car prices at $48K are over 50% of the median yearly household income in the US which I did a web search to show is $80,020 for 2024.

Some other Googling indcated the "middle class" is considered to be from $40,010 to $160,040 per year, the average new car price is over 100% of the lower end of that.

We've built our cities around the car. We need affordable cars for the masses.

Not only that but the longer loan terms make todays vehicles far more expensive (once they finish paying it off) over the actual sales price but the general public does not think that way, its an emotional purchase.

 

[alarmguy]

Average prices can be misleading - they get skewed on the tail. Median might be better?

In 1984, Median household income was around $22K (as far back as FRED goes). A base Chevy Cavalier started at $6500 (about 30% of income) Was the most popular car that year.

If Median household income is now $80K, 30% = $26,400. You can buy a Corolla or many other cars for that.

Nothings changed honestly, other possibly than preference. No one wants a Corolla.

Shelter, healthcare and educations costs have gone way up. People have way less at the end of the month. Car prices are not the reason.

Huh?
You just showed a basic 1984 Chevy was around $6,500
and you are saying now that no one will buy a base car anymore for $26,400. 2025 Corolla

So everything has changed. People have way less at the end of the month because they are all living beyond their means. Instead of that $26,400 Corolla they are buying a $42,000 (or more SUV)
I wish I could find the median price of cars to compare our numbers but it's REALLY hard. When doing searches you always get "averages" but the prices are insane because they are taking out long term loans and they didnt do that in the 80s, and 90s

Anyway, I can not agree that cars are not part of the problem along with all the other lousy spending habits of Americans. TV sports packages, excessTV in general, excess internet access, INSANE cell phone bills, landscapers, auto shops, remodeling of homes, appliances ect. NONE of this type of money was spent on these items in the 80s. We are rodents, companies will come out with products and people will spend when something less will do the same job is my feeling.

I remember the washer dryer craze years back, people going nuts for front load washers $1,600 plus when they could have spent $600 all for the bragging rights and most likely appliance store loan. Heck they were spending what a basic washer would be just on the pedestals that the front loaders would cost.

Heck I even see mattress stores show the monthly payment on a mattress to sleep. *LOL* I couldnt believe it. Same for appliances, refrigerators, people take out loans for an expensive refrigerator when they should be buying a basic one. Again, bragging rights, it everything about the American consumer. Everything is borrowed. Lets no even get into shopping for insurance.


https://finmasters.com/car-sales-statistics/

 

[Brons2]

Average prices can be misleading - they get skewed on the tail. Median might be better?

In 1984, Median household income was around $22K (as far back as FRED goes). A base Chevy Cavalier started at $6500 (about 30% of income) Was the most popular car that year.

If Median household income is now $80K, 30% = $26,400. You can buy a Corolla or many other cars for that.

Nothings changed honestly, other possibly than preference. No one wants a Corolla.

Shelter, healthcare and educations costs have gone way up. People have way less at the end of the month. Car prices are not the reason.

Cavalier? Man people were really into French cars back then! (I kid, I kid)

My parents bought a 1981 Pontiac T1000 new for $5209 that year. I'm pretty sure it was $5209, but if not, it was somewhere right around there. It was the Pontiac version of the Chevette. Zero options other than rear defroster, pretty much a necessity in western Oregon. 4 speed manual, no AC, crank windows, manual doors the whole 9 yards. NO radio! About 60 or 70 HP, it seemed like, about 45-47 mph over the mountain passes, tops. It was special ordered at Helm Pontiac in Corvallis, OR and took about 6 weeks to arrive, IIRC. Mom had an aftermarket stereo put in over the summer when she was out of nursing school working at a cannery in the area. The stereo was pretty nice, could easily drown out the road noise and engine noise on the highway, which with that car was considerable.

Our previous car was a 1970 Chevelle station wagon and while it was still serving us well, my mom was going to nursing school in the next city over and the gas costs with the Chevelle driving back and forth to school (as well as getting Dad to work and kids activities) were more than the payment on the Pontiac. Wish I could get that Chevelle back.

The T1000 worked out ok until my Dad flipped it into the ditch on an icy morning taking me to a swim meet in 83-ish I think. We were fine, but the car was never the same after that, they probably should have totalled it. When I hit my teenage years, I was too tall to sit in the back seat anymore anyway. Parents traded it on an 84 S-15 Jimmy 4x4 on a weekend when I was away freezing my arse off, uh I mean, camping with the Boy Scouts. I learned to drive on it, totally gutless, but was a competent off roader, which was fun for shenanigans when I was in high school. Growing up in rural Oregon in the 80s, there was only so much trouble you could get into, but that was one of the ways. lol....

 

[alarmguy]

@Brons2
I remember those days when it was fancy having a rear defroster! Back in the 60s and 70s you could buy a fan that you hooked up to blow air on the rear windshield and some places sold foil that was supposed to work like today's modern vehicles.
My first car was a used 66 Mustang, in the year 1973, no AC, AM radio, crank windows but the coolest thing about it was a small light under the dash board that lit up to remind you to buckle your seatbelt! It said Seat Belt! Now that was advanced *LOL* and I actually thought it was so cool.

 

[CheezWhiz]

Let me guess; you don't own a Tesla?

True and I'm happy to be educated by you if you choose. My impression was you're talking about 30 minutes or so to recharge on a road trip, is that correct? If so, I think it's definitely an inconvenience to consider, as well as the availability of a charging station wherever you happen to be going.

For my part, I've done a number of cross-country drives and spend substantial time driving on northeast WA and north Idaho forest roads where the thought of needing to recharge my vehicle when 50 miles from the nearest hard road gives nightmares. But that's not a common use case, for sure!

 

[JeffKeryk]

True and I'm happy to be educated by you if you choose. My impression was you're talking about 30 minutes or so to recharge on a road trip, is that correct? If so, I think it's definitely an inconvenience to consider, as well as the availability of a charging station wherever you happen to be going.

For my part, I've done a number of cross-country drives and spend substantial time driving on northeast WA and north Idaho forest roads where the thought of needing to recharge my vehicle when 50 miles from the nearest hard road gives nightmares. But that's not a common use case, for sure!

If you regularly drive more than, say 250 miles regularly, an EV may not be right for you. In fact, charging issues are the overwhelming reason owners go back to ICE.

I know of people who do not charge at home, they charge at work, shopping centers, etc during dwell times. I would not do that. Most EV owners have an ICE vehicle as well; I sure do.

Is an EV right for you? I am somewhat of an extreme case. Silicon Valley gas (and energy) is freakin' expensive. I installed solar panels in early 2018 and bought a M3 Mid Range in Dec. I can tell you starting every day with a full tank and rarely Supercharging (trips) has to be experienced to be appreciated. I have learned to pretty much hate gas stations for the most part; they have become necessary evils as funny as that sounds.

What are the best parts of our Tesla? Well, it's flat out fun to drive; it goes like stink. Our new M3P Highland is rated at 300 mile range; that absolutely depends on how you drive it. 85 mph on the freeway is like a dream but your range will drop perhaps 50 miles. Remember, that 300 mile range is if you charge to 100%. I charge to 80% unless I will be going further; then I may charge to 95%.

Out '18 Mid Range had far less range. If I needed to charge to get home, I would stop at a Supercharger, plug in, go in the store and grab a coffee and come back. 15 minutes gets you a ton of miles when the battery is low. Or you can just read emails or catch up on BITOG. Now, throw a stone around here and you will hit a Supercharger. They are generally located just off freeways for good reason.

These cars are different; they are not for everyone. But in my experience, there is an ICE group think attitude. The reality is, it depends on your use case.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Battery costs are still relatively high, although much less than 5-10 years ago. With active exploration going in for battery metals and alternate chemistries being researched across the globe, as well as production beginning to achieve efficiencies of scale, at least in China, it can be assured that cost will continue to decline.

Then there is the politization of the overall topic of EVs, which I won't get into here because it's against the rules, but surely affects sales in the US and to a lesser extent in other regions.

When batteries can be made cheaply, it will be a game changer for EV sales. China is going to figure it out, the only question is, will our domestic manufacturers be in a position to compete or not?

I posted this here, or maybe another thread, but there are lots of BYD's available for under $20K. So we don't get one because the sacred ones must be protected, not battery cost.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Huh?
You just showed a basic 1984 Chevy was around $6,500
and you are saying now that no one will buy a base car anymore for $26,400. 2025 Corolla

So everything has changed. People have way less at the end of the month because they are all living beyond their means. Instead of that $26,400 Corolla they are buying a $42,000 (or more SUV)
I wish I could find the median price of cars to compare our numbers but it's REALLY hard. When doing searches you always get "averages" but the prices are insane because they are taking out long term loans and they didnt do that in the 80s, and 90s

Anyway, I can not agree that cars are not part of the problem along with all the other lousy spending habits of Americans. TV sports packages, excessTV in general, excess internet access, INSANE cell phone bills, landscapers, auto shops, remodeling of homes, appliances ect. NONE of this type of money was spent on these items in the 80s. We are rodents, companies will come out with products and people will spend when something less will do the same job is my feeling.

I remember the washer dryer craze years back, people going nuts for front load washers $1,600 plus when they could have spent $600 all for the bragging rights and most likely appliance store loan. Heck they were spending what a basic washer would be just on the pedestals that the front loaders would cost.

Heck I even see mattress stores show the monthly payment on a mattress to sleep. *LOL* I couldnt believe it. Same for appliances, refrigerators, people take out loans for an expensive refrigerator when they should be buying a basic one. Again, bragging rights, it everything about the American consumer. Everything is borrowed. Lets no even get into shopping for insurance.


https://finmasters.com/car-sales-statistics/

I thought that is what I just said. A basic car relative to median income hasn't changed in price. So the fact car sales have not kept up with population can not be about price? Must be about something else.

As for the rest of your comment, a kid in my college dorm financed a VCR. Was likely 1996? He became very popular for a short time. Comparatively financing a bed sounds very practical.

Truly nothing changes under the sun.

 

[LavaRand]

If the OEMs are given free reign of what they want to build and sell (which is based on sales volume and profit margins), it's a given that the production of ICE vehicles will increase and EVs will decrease, based primarily on waning consumer demand due to higher EV prices, less availability, and lack of rebates/incentives.

This isn't wrong but it's not an accurate perception of the issue. It's going to happen that way not because of facts of the market, but because US car companies want it that way. Definitely not because US consumers want it that way.

Domestic car companies want to sell what makes them money: Correct, and that's ICE's, because that's all domestic car companies have. Domestic car companies cannot compete on EVs. So instead of consumers winning with cheap EVs and domestic car companies taking the loss they deserve for under-investing in competitive products, they are going to call in the government to ban/tariff away the competition. So the consumers lose, and domestic car companies win...for a now...in the short term. But in the long term, it's not even good for domestic car companies, because they fall further behind and even less competitive.

It's not that US consumers don't want EVs. They just don't want EVs at inflated prices. The US car companies and the US government are making deliberate steps to eliminate the threat of competitive (i.e. cheap) EVs from the US market. As I said before, their actions are the best proof you need. Nobody needs to levy 100% tariffs on products that "the American consumers don't want". The only reason to levy tariffs is because the industry KNOWS that US consumers want cheap EVs and are going to buy them hand over fist if/when they become availeble, and US car companies know they do not have any products to compete.

The market is doing a very similar thing it did in the 80s when smaller, more reliable, more fuel-efficient foreign cars started to threaten US car makers. They had no equivalent products to compete, and they responded with a combination of protectionism and "if you can't beat em join em" tactics of re-branding foreign cars, thus the Geo Metro (made by Suzuki), Geo Prism (made by Toyota), small pickup trucks (made by datsun etc). The exact same thing is happening with EVs. The Chevy Bolt is a global creation from a Chinese design using a Korean drivetrain. You can only buy a foreign EV if General Motors gets a cut (and inflates the price to levels sufficient not to cannibalize their other products).

When batteries can be made cheaply, it will be a game changer for EV sales. China is going to figure it out, the only question is, will our domestic manufacturers be in a position to compete or not?

There is no question. It already happened, and domestic manufacturers are not in a position to compete. Definitively. Batteries can already be made cheap enough to make ICE cars look unattractive by comparison. Battery costs are already at a level that wasn't predicted to arrive until 2030. The revolution already happened! And there is no way US companies can compete while having to buy Chinese batteries. The most American EV, Tesla, is even using Chinese batteries.

 

[Rmay635703]

One thing that might normalize the data is population growth. How many more people are in the USA in 2025 than were here in 2006? I would guess in the tens of millions without consulting a web search engine.

The us population only grows due to immigration .

The funny thing is the number of registered vehicles in my state for example peaked over 3 million but after insurance was made mandatory and registration fees went up exponentially so the number of registrations actually fell by over a million to 1.7 million.

Funny thing is that Wisconsin doesn’t report ALL registrations in the same bucket as they once did so the numbers you see might look low if some other entity is including other things that are registered in that number (like dump trucks)

And in defense of that number despite more traffic there are indeed fewer private vehicles the ones left drive more and are shared between more people.

The state seems to actively desire people owning fewer cars and to what end I don’t know, their registration increases actually lost the state money because people just have fewer cars, when I was a kid everyone had 3 cars, a motorcycle, a moped. It’s too expensive to do that and the towns are becoming anal about using your own driveway

 

[LavaRand]

If you regularly drive more than, say 250 miles regularly, an EV may not be right for you. In fact, charging issues are the overwhelming reason owners go back to ICE.

Correct, and that's rare. Very few Americans regularly drive 250 miles. And even those who do, who are undoubtedly racking up big mileages and fuel costs, have all the more reason to decide on an EV as they stand to save the most money from fuel savings.

The average car trip in the US is 12 miles (AAA). Only 7% of car trips in the US are over 30 miles (US DOE). People in the US travel an average of 40 miles per workday. EVs already work for the vast majority of Americans.

 

[dogememe]

The usual EV thread, with some of the usual naysayers.
OTOH, we have actual EV owners with actual EV experience telling us that they aren't all that costly on an all-in per mile basis and they they work just fine as daily drivers.
You gonna believe owner experience or non-owner phony objections?

In our household, we have a Honda Prologue, a Chevy Bolt, and a Nissan Kicks.

Let's compare cost per mile. For gas prices, I'm going to use $4.50/gallon. For electricity, I'm going to say $0.55/kwh.

Prologue... I average about 2.5mi/kwh. That means the cost per mile is $0.22.
Bolt... I average about 3.5mi/kwh. That means the cost per mile is $0.16.
Kicks... Let's say it gets 30MPG. Cost per mile is $0.15.

What do those numbers teach us?
1. The Prologue is an absolute pig. Its efficiency SUCKS, and my driving style doesn't help.
2. If your power cost is high enough, because PG&E SUCKS, EVs are not cheaper per mile.

But, let's change the numbers to something that applies more to the rest of the country. If we assume gas is $3.50/gallon, and electricity is $0.15/kwh. That would make our cost per mile for the Prologue $0.06, cost per mile for the Bolt $0.04, and cost per mile for the Kicks $0.12. In that case, EV is VASTLY cheaper per mile. This is true for majority of places in the US.

Yet, despite our absurd electricity prices leading to a high cost per mile, the Prologue is still our favorite vehicle. It's the one we drive the most. And we enjoy the benefits of an EV every day. Our favorite thing about it is the smooth, quiet driving and instant torque, even though it's slow compared to many other EVs.

We picked the Prologue over some other EVs for its traditional look inside and out. It's an SUV that happens to be electric. And it has Apple CarPlay unlike its brother the Blazer EV.

At home we share a single level 1 charging cord (regular wall outlet) between two EVs. We do not have solar nor the capability to install a proper level 2 charger - it's a rented older home with 50A service. At one of my partners jobs there is free level 2 charging, although it is not always available.

We occasionally use public DC fast charging infrastructure. I can not recall a single time where we have had to wait to charge, however ONCE at an older 50kw EVgo at a local grocery store, the charger was out of service. Most often we use a nearby Electrify America station. When available, we try to use the 350kw units to get the full 150kw charge rate. Due to low voltage, on a 150kw EA charger, the Prologue will NOT achieve 150kw.

Another option for DC fast charging is Tesla Superchargers at a compatible v3 or v4 site. Not all Tesla Superchargers work with CCS cars. Speeds are good at these chargers, I can easily max out the Prologue's 150kw speeds at them using my Lectron adapter. BUT the cables are super short, and the charge port is in totally the wrong spot. It's less trouble on the Bolt because it's got a short snout (although I still have to take up two spots in the Bolt if I'm not at the rightmost charger), but on the Prologue, some creative parking is required. While Honda isn't officially on the Tesla list, I simply selected my vehicle as a Chevy Blazer EV in the Tesla app and it works perfectly

All that said, I love my EVs! I am a happy EV owner.