We know it takes about 10 years to turn a profit on a successful EV design.
GM and Ford are 3 years in and losing money each car and will for a long time still.
I can say with certainty them losing 7500 wont help their ROI.
ICE vehicles will be 75% of US car market in 2025
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We know it takes about 10 years to turn a profit on a successful EV design.
GM and Ford are 3 years in and losing money each car and will for a long time still.
I can say with certainty them losing 7500 wont help their ROI.
All this internal bickering doesn't help. These guys are coming with dirt cheap product.
Probably not, although things might stay the way they are and not get much worse. We might also see the V8 stick around longer, and EVs won't be rammed down our throats, along with forcing us to cook with electric, and make heat and hot water with electric. I see it as a win. Drill baby, drill!!
IMO sadly the diesel in cars and light trucks is pretty much done, DI no comment, and stop/start can be disabled.
Losing the mandate is a win.
Getting better cars would be a win win.
We'll see if we get better cars. I dont see anything that looks like we will.
Unfortunately I agree, but there's always a ICE cars could get better. In any event it was a win imo, ICE will live on here in the USA longer, and I look forward to better times ahead.
Over this side of the pond we are envious that you have a new pragmatic leader in power that will allow the market to determine the pace of EV introduction. We are stuck with a net zero idiot that will have the country in blackouts.
I'm not against EV's but they are still developing, I see news on improved battery technology almost every day which will increase range, reduce cost and and make them viable for most people, but they are not there for me yet at the right price point. I've just replaced my car and did seriously consider an EV but it wouldn't do the range that I need. Next time in 5 years or so I'm sure it will. Market forces will see to that without excessive interference from governments.
I'm not against EV's but they are still developing, I see news on improved battery technology almost every day which will increase range, reduce cost and and make them viable for most people, but they are not there for me yet at the right price point. I've just replaced my car and did seriously consider an EV but it wouldn't do the range that I need. Next time in 5 years or so I'm sure it will. Market forces will see to that without excessive interference from governments.
Don't hold your breath waiting for 'next level battery whatever' as it just isn't happening in real time like we are led to believe. Look how long lithium sources have been in use and still nothing mind blowing to replace it. These manufacturers can blow smoke all they want, but no doubt there will continue to be trial and lots of error before something next level actually is proven to be more useful. In the U.S. is still makes little difference as the majority of population simply don't have practical means of at-home charging.
The $7500 will not get cut.
Japan is importing massive amounts of LNG from far away to power their AI data centers.
Now if somehow the EV become significantly lower cost up front then that could change things. However I think the days of EV's being cheaper to operate on a yearly basis are short. Either that or we lose global hegemony. The Pentagon already says we can't fight a war without chinese made components. Why do you think we suddenly have a desire to tariff everyone?
I agree ICE sales will grow - at least as a percentage of the overall market - ie maybe they shrink less if the whole market shrinks. The simple reason is a) they exist, and people really don't care what powers there car b) we need the electricity for AI and manufacturing, so they will find ways to make it expensive to charge a car - maybe a tiered rate structure or something.
Japan is importing massive amounts of LNG from far away to power their AI data centers.
Now if somehow the EV become significantly lower cost up front then that could change things. However I think the days of EV's being cheaper to operate on a yearly basis are short. Either that or we lose global hegemony. The Pentagon already says we can't fight a war without chinese made components. Why do you think we suddenly have a desire to tariff everyone?
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These all cost money. The OEM's will be happy to offer alternates - more profit for them - assuming they still have some of the older MPI stuff around. There not going to redevelop something new though. 4 years is there only time horizon, so you can't restart a design cycle based on that.
Unfortunately these kinds of things are knee jerk reactions on political party in power. Really unfortunate a decent middle ground compromise is not achieved and stuck to.I'm hoping they push the emission standards out for at least the next 12 years.Maybe longer if things go well.
I agree, but it goes both ways - look how we got here, with subsidies and mandates.
Exactly! EVs are a long way off from being ready for prime time. At least for now they aren't going to be forced upon us, and we'll be able to heat, cook, and make hot water with natural gas. I call it a big win, opinions will vary.
That goes for Tesla as well. You’re speculating on the future of all things on automobiles. It is not going to take anywhere near 10 years for General Motors to turn a profit on its electric vehicles.
Which company will be affected more?
Tesla or General motors
General Motors builds only a small percent of its production in electric vehicles
If the $7500 credit goes away electric vehicle sales will fall further into the toilet
To me, that means Tesla might be more affected than General Motors since people will will stick with gasoline engines, which is GMs major profit driver.
Currently, General Motors yearly profit is higher than Tesla (always has been) and in this situation might give a significant further boost to its profit should that $7500 go away. Even with the tax credit Tesla USA sales went down for 2024 that is horrible performance for a new product.
I do want to make something clear for others because I saw some reference to it.
I’m not entirely sure the $7500 is going to be cut. We all know the emissions requirements will be gone. But that 7500. I find interesting that I am not seeing much mention of cutting it and I’m wondering if they’re going try to keep it. I will be extremely disappointed if it is not eliminated.
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Good point. I look at it this way: the "let people buy what they want" statement is going to do just that. People will buy their big gas guzzling pick ups from the legacy auto makers and enjoy them, driving up profits. Then as a result less losses from selling their EVs. Win win again imo.
Exactly, keep EV's as an alternative but do not force people to buy them with mandates and round about tricks with unrealistic fuel economy standards. If EV's fail to gain mass acceptance so be it.
They’ll gain traction organically just like hybrids and recently PHEV have. Toyota few billion gamble on hybrid has paid off for them and really consumers.
On so many levels, things have a real chance to get better in this nation across the board now. Deregulation, elimination of totally unrealistic mandates, etc. can and will unleash innovation in many industries, vehicle production included. There is a real chance ICE vehicles can be made better and more affordable at the same time. ICE future just got a lot brighter. Stay tuned the next 4 (or 8) years.
Tesla is so sure of it that they don't even list in on new car orders anymore. I wonder why?
It still shows for existing cars for the time being though.I think it's twofold. People don't want sedans and with the higher fuel economy standards it's harder for manufacturers to meet metrics. Even when that's taken out of the equation going to Tesla with the Model Y being on average $3k more per each trim compared to the Model 3, the Model Y sells more. Heck I even folded to cars and bought a crossover for convenience. I thought I was the last person to want to do that.
Yes, clearly people want CUV/ SUV now days. However to say my Rav4 is a "light truck" is laughable. Govco logic.
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