Hydrogen Neue Klasse EV?
- Thread starter JeffKeryk
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Or me neither.
If I recall correctly, basic thermodynamics was his problem with me as well.
BMW - a possible "fuel of the future"
(this might be old news or possible test markets around the world, not sure) The pilot fleet has been on the road since 2023 according to the source.
(this might be old news or possible test markets around the world, not sure) The pilot fleet has been on the road since 2023 according to the source.
BMW WILL LAUNCH THE FIRST HYDROGEN-POWERED PRODUCTIONMODEL IN 2028
https://www.bmwgroup.com/en/innovation/drive-technologies/hydrogen.html
I tend to agree, but then my thinking takes a turn as BMW is fully aware of this and yet proceeds forward
For the record so no one gets the wrong impression. I would assume they just prepared for the possibility in the future.
I consider the future starting maybe 20 years out and even then gasoline will still rule
Hydrogen has always been slow to develop and that was a massive regression for adoption at the consumer level. It's basically dead at this point. If hydrogen is going to do anything it's going to be at the commercial level. The railroad I work for has a couple of locomotives in Canada that are hydrogen fuel cell and I'd love to get a chance to try them just because of how quiet it would be, but there's no incentive to use them because there's nowhere to fuel them with our current set up. They still just drive small diesel tanker trucks to the locomotives in my area to fuel and they're just a local company we contract with.
^^^^ That would be way cool to experience the technology
Growing up in the 70s and 80s we heard how Ballard Energy's hydrogen fuel cell was going to change the world. Heard it again in the 90s. Again in 2k. Again 10 years ago. Again now. Read my signature. It may have a limited use in very large vehicles, but as a small, mobile fuel source...forget it.
Yes. I am that old.
Yes. I am that old.
Im sure it's a global auto, and in other geos they may be much more receptive to the fuel.
It's just a non starter here in the US.
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This is great news, more engines for M539Restaurations to buy with very limited miles on them...
Yes, clearly BMW states global rollout.
Non starter here I agree unless nothing is done to upgrade our power sources and distribution> if the drive to eliminate gasoline continues and if the public accepts BEVs. Everything changes every 4 years.
As it is, even present day. Look they are shutting down ONE nuclear power plant on the West Coast for refueling and time it for this time of year of lower energy use and still warning their maybe power shortages. Now thrown in 10s of millions of cars to an ultimate of 300 million currently..
So technology advances and to say never is forming an opinion of something that hasn't taken place yet. Fortune telling, using a paltry less than 5 million EV cars out of 300 million gasoline cars to make any statement of certainty. One thing for sure, we will not be here to know the answer. I am certainly not saying H2 is the answer. I am saying currently it is a possibility or these corporations would not be spending the money on research and development. I am sure they have many more resources than BITOG
People here accuse me of bing closed mind and bent on promoting H2. Ummmm ... no
It's closed mind to think there is no other technology for the life of mankind other than BEVs for 300 millions automobiles.
It's that kind of thought, to me anyway that we would still be without the integrated circuit. How about millions of transistors on a chip you can put on your finger tip, stuff like that.
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I don't think anyone has accused you of being closed minded, simply not knowledgeable enough on the subject, which allows for a degree of optimism that isn't supported by the current state of the hydrogen market, and doesn't reflect the considerable challenges presented in not only producing hydrogen, but transporting and storing it. It's like some thorium bro hot taking about how we should just transition to MSR's, ignoring the myriad reasons MSR's, and thorium, never took off in the first place and why water won out.
It's nothing like IC's or transistors. Electrolysis of water to extract hydrogen is hundreds of years old. We shifted to methane reformation because it was considerably cheaper and more productive, which is why over 95% of the world's hydrogen is produced in that manner. There is no equivalent of Moore's Law that applies to Hydrogen, which is what is behind the unprecedented growth of semiconductors, you'd need some variation of Wright's Law, but the challenge there is that, not only is there, like with batteries, a minimum level of cost; a cost floor for production/extraction, you also have compression, storage, transport and then the challenge of safe handling at scale. All of which make it vastly inferior to methane. Basically, methane is better in every possible metric than hydrogen except emissions, that's a rather massive barrier to hydrogen's success.
There's a conversation to be had here, but that involves taking the people you clash with on subjects like this off your ignore list and coming to grips with the complexity of the subject.
The only way hydrogen would be feasible is if you had a pure source of hydrogen like Jupiter. Hydrogen takes twice the energy to convert hydrogen vs gasoline. This is pure mathematics. Hydrogen makes up .000005% of Earths atmosphere and is primarily bonded to other elements. There's a reason that Shell dumped all of their hydrogen filling stations. Now that the Toyota Mirai is coming off lease a mini black market has sprung up with people trying to get money for their hydrogen fill up cards. Hydrogen prices are now in the $27 kg to fill from what a number of sources have said online.
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And we're eagerly waiting to see if more Mirais will make it to Ukraine, as the one and only Mirai donated years ago to a local university is no more accounted for, BUT a Mirai's hydrogen tank is known to have been used as an efficient and very inexpensive (all things considered) bomb "amplifier":
https://www.jalopnik.com/ukrainian-forces-built-a-hydrogen-bomb-out-of-a-toyota-1851620854/
https://www.jalopnik.com/ukrainian-forces-built-a-hydrogen-bomb-out-of-a-toyota-1851620854/
Is this where we're at now? Am I reading this right? Are you taking a shot an Ukraine here?
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Huh ?!?
If praising resourcefulness in a dire situation fighting for survival to save your country is taking a shot - then yes, I'm taking a shot ? Otherwise - nope.
I was pointing it as an indication of the technology involved in this thing. The Mirai's tank is so strong that once finally detonated (which can always be done when you really want to, don't do this at home), combined with whatever classic explosive they strapped to it, it had the effect of a weapon orders of magnitude more expensive.
I apologize, it hit me weird. I've learned that some long time friends I've had are ardent Russian supporters and I'm a bit on edge given that I never expected that outcome. It does make sense given the amount of pressure that a hydrogen tank must contain that this would be possible.
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I stopped discussing anything with anyone about this, as I'm constantly surprised how professional abilities and intellect seem to no longer have any logical correlation to common sense, and people can at the same time be neuro surgeons or stellar engineers, and credulous and susceptible to BS at the level of a 9 years old.
At a personal level - I'm selfish, and I was extremely insulted by having given Russians some benefit of the doubt as being borderline special, for decades, and they turned out to be just as stupid as anybody else. T'was a shock.
So, speaking about the Ukrainian Mirai - it looks indeed like they had one in the country, and it disappeared after the war started, for the hydrogen tank to end up there.
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