Hybrid anyone?

jason07-1zzfe · Sep 1, 2005

Thats good highway mileage, but the hybrid will get 10-20mpg better in the city. (and nearly 10mpg better hwy as well)

The price difference between hybrid and regular civic has the potential to only be a couple thousand dollars with the new tax credit put in effect. It's $3500 max dependant on mpg of vehicle.
With my driving I would make up that difference within a couple years. From then on it's pure savings. Which God knows what prices will be then. Right now with the 25% higher hwy mpg, and 65% higher city than base civic. It would be well over $600/yr savings. Why not Hybrid. That would be a no brainer for me.

Tosh · Sep 1, 2005

Presumably we all already have decently maintained cars that can last for many more years. The maximum savings for most of us would come from keeping our existing car.
To me, it seems like hybrids are the status symbols of the environmentalist-poseurs. Real environmentalists wouldn't support consumerism like this (for an untested product). And what happens when the battery is spent? More complexity MUST mean more problems. But I'll try one in ten years or so, when I need a new car.

Here's a calculator from the guvment:
http://www.eere.energy.gov/cleancities/hev/cost_calc.html

Let us know what it turns up, as I haven't tried it.

jason07-1zzfe · Sep 1, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Steve S:
... I am also sure the dealer will be gouging on the price now.

That's what I'm worried about. But then I won't buy one. It wont be cost effective. Of course people who can't think things through still would so I would just get something used.

kenw · Sep 1, 2005

gouging?

let's not overuse the word here, people.

pa04prius · Sep 2, 2005

You are headed in the right direction Jason. I've had my Prius since Nov.2003 and have had 0 problems over 37,000 miles. A Honda should be just as good. My driving is about 70% highway and 25% city and my lifetime average is 46.6 mpg. Had I been using FP60 the whole time, I'm sure it would be over 48. I will never even consider a non-hybrid vehicle when it is time to trade in my car or my wife's Corolla. The days of pure ICE powered cars are over.
I see some are telling you to buy a used Corolla or other small car. Only you can decide that one. Corolla is a nice car but much too small for any long distance drives, in my opinion.
Others claim you will never make up the 'premium' over an ICE Civic. With the price of gas, it won't take long. Wether the dealers jack up the 'mark-up' on the HCH remains to be seen. Some Toyota dealers were marking up the Prius as much as $5000 over sticker when they were very scarce, but there are honest dealers that will not do that (mine is one of them). Seek the good guys out.
I looked at the HCH when I was considering the Prius and found it to be too small and I did not think the IMA system Honda had at the time was very flexible. The new Civic is supposed to be better. You might want to look at the Prius - it is a mid-sized car with as much passenger room as a Camry and the hatchback is great for hauling all kinds of things.

Go hybrid, Jason. It's cleaner, more efficient, and you'll feel GREAT when gas hits $5.00/gallon and you can drive by the pumps!

Brett Miller · Sep 3, 2005

When I purchased my 2003 Civic EX I did consider the Hybrid. However, I wouldn't break even on the additional cost until 180,000 miles. Of course that was with $1.60 gas and assuming no repair costs with the battery packs or electric motor. The price difference was about $3,300.

unDummy · Sep 3, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by ebc:
Greetings,
I am considering a Civic Hybrid (2006) for my next car. Since I do quite a bit of interstate commuting, I am concerned about the cars ability to "keep up with the flow" of interstate traffic. Speeds usually run 70-80 mph but the terrain (East TN) is hilly.
Your ideas please.
Thanks,
ebc

Find someone with a Jetta/Gold TDI and borrow/rent it for a week. Then, borrow/rent/drive a hybrid.
I would think that the "hilly terrain" and "80mph" speeds would easily help you in your decision, and you probably won't want the hybrid.

For 2006, the Civic is redesigned. Hopefully Honda addresses the poor MPG improvement of the earlier Civic hybrid when compared to regular Civic.

IMO, hybrids are overrated. But, buying one provides $$$$ to improve the technology for future models. The R&D and engineering need to be paid somehow if we ever want to have an efficient commute.

I think that it would be more sensible to buy a TDI or a "commuter car" like the regular Civic/Corolla/Sentra/Lancer/Accent/Elantra/Rio/Spectra/.....with a base engine and manual transmission.

airbus · Sep 3, 2005

I wouldn't consider a hybrid. They are about $10,000 more Canadian for the "same" car. That's alot of gas! Plus,who knows how durable these cars will be in the long run. I would wait and buy a diesel first - hopefully there will be more selection shortly.

H2GURU · Sep 3, 2005

Make a few phone calls around to your local HAZ-MAT disposal cos. and see what the fee will be to get rid of those batteries in about 5 years, and while you're at it check on the replacement cost. A local T.V. station did a story on Hybrids and with today's info claimed pay back period in NORTH OF 25 YEARS!

pa04prius · Sep 5, 2005

Don't know about Honda, but Toyota already has a recycling facility constructed to take old batteries and recycle them. With the high price of nickel, I'm sure a lot of junk yards will be happy to take them. Lead/acid batteries are a FAR greater environmental hazard than NiMH batteries.

brianl703 · Sep 5, 2005

If I have to dispose of a lead acid battery, there are lots of places that will accept them for recycling.

If I have to dispose of a NiMH battery..

It's good that Toyota has a recycling facility for these batteries..but have they considered how to collect these batteries for recycling?

Will Toyota pay the shipping for sending the battery to their facility? Will wrecking yard operators know how to properly dispose of the NiMH batteries?

Where would I go to find out where to take these batteries? I kinda doubt that Autozone or my local mechanic will accept them for recycling.

VNT · Sep 6, 2005

Really, let see 8 yr 100K mile warranty. Current price I found for a new battery pack was 2500-3800$ plus install. This assumes the electric motor/drive doesnt take a dump on you at some point. To me just another useless system on a car to maintain and repair when it fails and it WILL fail at some point. Hybrids are being sold to clueless people who do not do a proper cost benefit analysis and probably to people who dont wrench their own cars. I pity them when they start to have failures in a few years.

Also I doubt junk yards are interested in paying to dispose of yet another hazardous component. Up here they already have to worry about fluids(coolant, oil gas) and switches with mercury, baterries, tires ets.

quote:

Originally posted by pa04prius:
Don't know about Honda, but Toyota already has a recycling facility constructed to take old batteries and recycle them. With the high price of nickel, I'm sure a lot of junk yards will be happy to take them. Lead/acid batteries are a FAR greater environmental hazard than NiMH batteries.

lobo11 · Sep 6, 2005

My father-in-law is friends with a guy with a Prius, has a long commute and thought he could make up in gas the difference in price. For one he says his car has never got the advertized mpg, and when he started looking at replacement cost for batteries he is do for he about sh+t himself. He would try and sell it but isn't willing not to tell someone intersted it will need the new battery pack within the near future. He says it was a terrible idea, and he wished he would have really done more research before making the purchase. Funny thing is he is a very smart guy whom is a professor at a state university, but he got so caught up in the hype that he didn't caregully look at other options.

jason07-1zzfe · Sep 6, 2005

Clueless? That's pretty strong. With current gas prices there are some instances where you can save some money, with those battery prices it will be small. I can't believe they won't be much cheaper in 5-10yrs. You could also think of owning one as a personal energy policy. What are gas prices going to be in 5-10yrs. Will they double in a 2yr time frame, like they just did? I just don't see what's up with the strong feelings against them. Some people make it sound like you are completely daft if you buy one. Now perhaps the people buying them above MSRP are

But that's a personal choice for something they want, not need. Same as a sports car or SUV.
"I pity them when they start to have failures in a few years." - You make it sound like they just came out.
I don't believe it is as far out as you make it to be. And I do believe it is viable, even it though it may not be for most people, at this point in time.
And as far as the maintenance and failures, that's what people said when electronic fuel injection came out.

VNT · Sep 6, 2005

Actually the prediction is the current ones being marketed will have very few options but to pay the price for replacements. See my previous post, there are other manufacturers who are developing new batteries with 150K mile 15 year life, but wont see those for another two years when GM and DC use them in their Hybrid Tahoes and Durangos.

Per the cost of fuel comment, I think Steve Forbes was on FOx the other night and commented that oil will be back down to 30$ range with 1-2yrs since there is a lot of new fields coming on line, so he doesnt see engery as a problem to the economy next year? Will this happen who knows but I stand by my comment, the cost of these cars is not justified and it is good to see here that most on this board can see through them. Note fuel injection is not comparable to a battery. All batteries fail since they are a discrete component, plus 4000$ does not equal 120$ for a set of injectors.

quote:

Originally posted by Jason Troxell:
Clueless? That's pretty strong. With current gas prices there are some instances where you can save some money, with those battery prices it will be small. I can't believe they won't be much cheaper in 5-10yrs. You could also think of owning one as a personal energy policy. What are gas prices going to be in 5-10yrs. Will they double in a 2yr time frame, like they just did? I just don't see what's up with the strong feelings against them. Some people make it sound like you are completely daft if you buy one. Now perhaps the people buying them above MSRP are

But that's a personal choice for something they want, not need. Same as a sports car or SUV.
"I pity them when they start to have failures in a few years." - You make it sound like they just came out.
I don't believe it is as far out as you make it to be. And I do believe it is viable, even it though it may not be for most people, at this point in time.
And as far as the maintenance and failures, that's what people said when electronic fuel injection came out.

bar1 · Sep 7, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by pa04prius:
My driving is about 70% highway and 25% city and my lifetime average is 46.6 mpg.
Go hybrid, Jason. It's cleaner, more efficient, and you'll feel GREAT when gas hits $5.00/gallon and you can drive by the pumps!

With my previos car, a VW Passat 1.9 TDI I got the same mpg driving 70% highway/30% city. What is so special with the hybrid? More complicated, more weight. I would think that lifetime (production, use and disposal) pollution from a battery/gasoline/diesel hybrid car is equal or worse to a gasoline/diesel engine car.

jtantare · Sep 7, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by norwegian oil:

quote:

Originally posted by pa04prius:
My driving is about 70% highway and 25% city and my lifetime average is 46.6 mpg.
Go hybrid, Jason. It's cleaner, more efficient, and you'll feel GREAT when gas hits $5.00/gallon and you can drive by the pumps!

Click to expand...

With my previos car, a VW Passat 1.9 TDI I got the same mpg driving 70% highway/30% city. What is so special with the hybrid? More complicated, more weight. I would think that lifetime (production, use and disposal) pollution from a battery/gasoline/diesel hybrid car is equal or worse to a gasoline/diesel engine car.

Hybrid can pass California emissions. TDI can't. Hopefully after low sulfur diesel becomes the norm here in 07 we'll see more diesels. Also 87 octane (AKA 91 in europe) is about 30 to 40 cents cheaper than diesel fuel.

Tosh · Sep 7, 2005

The electric motor's purpose on a hybrid is to assist the little gas engine during high load conditions, mainly during take-off from standstill (and regeneration when braking). So if your driving doesn't include lots of stopping and starting, then a hybrid is inherently NOT meant for you.

brianl703 · Sep 7, 2005

With just a little planning I can avoid driving that includes lots of stopping and starting.

jtantare · Sep 7, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by VNT:

Per the cost of fuel comment, I think Steve Forbes was on FOx the other night and commented that oil will be back down to 30$ range with 1-2yrs since there is a lot of new fields coming on line, so he doesnt see engery as a problem to the economy next year?

Would you expect Steve Forbes to say anything different on fox "news"? Of course he is going to tell you oil prices will come down. Its in his best interest for you to believe that. Fox has been screaming about lower gas prices just around the corner for the last 3 years. In the mean time the price of crude oil has tripled and the price at the pump has more than doubled.

Driving a hybrid makes sense for a lot of people. Right now the difference between a Civic EX and a Hybrid is $2400. At $3 a gallon this year, $4 by this time next year and maybe $5 3 years from now, I'll take the hybrid especially if most my driving is in city and stop and go traffic.

Hybrid anyone?

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