Hybrid anyone?

ebc

Messages
79
Location
Kingsport, TN
Greetings, I am considering a Civic Hybrid (2006) for my next car. Since I do quite a bit of interstate commuting, I am concerned about the cars ability to "keep up with the flow" of interstate traffic. Speeds usually run 70-80 mph but the terrain (East TN) is hilly. Your ideas please. Thanks, ebc
 
Messages
2,095
Location
IL
I really don't see the 2006 model having a problem. It's 115 combined HP. 95hp of which is from the engine so you will at least have that in worst case. The only problem I have heard of is in climbing large grades for long distances it will deplete the battery and you may be running only on gas engine. But sounds like you will have a mix of up and downhill, so that will recharge the battery. My old 88 Civic was less than the 95hp of the gas engine on the hybrid and it never had a problem keeping with traffic. With 115, I wouldn't be worried. Thats about what last gen regular Civic had. The Hybrid will actually feel more powerfull in city driving because it has more low end power. So basically that was a lot of typing to say don't worry [Wink]
 

VNT

Messages
258
Location
Maine
If you do mostly highway driving, dont get a hybrid. They dont meet the claimed highway #'s. Also you will probably pay a 5-7K premium for one and have another system to maintain on the car and the battery packs cost several thousand $$ to repalce and are only warrantied to 100K miles. Would think once the car reaches 70K miles mark, value will go in the tank since no one will want to buy a used one knowing they will probably take a big hit in the pocket book to replace the battery pack. Their is an article today on this issue in one of the papers and I guess Fuji Industries is about to market a 15yr 150K mile battery pack which is much better than the current ones in use but you wont see these for another 2-3 years in hybrids from GM/DC in the trucks/SUV's
quote:
Originally posted by ebc: Greetings, I am considering a Civic Hybrid (2006) for my next car. Since I do quite a bit of interstate commuting, I am concerned about the cars ability to "keep up with the flow" of interstate traffic. Speeds usually run 70-80 mph but the terrain (East TN) is hilly. Your ideas please. Thanks, ebc
 
Messages
2,187
Location
Arizona
I agree that you shouldn't have any trouble driving the car on the interstate, even in hilly terrain. I also agree that interstate driving is the worst application of a hybrid. If you can deal with a coupe instead of a sedan, I would suggest the Civic HX. It may well exceed the hybrid in real-world freeway economy and is much simlper and won't have any battery issues down the road. It is also much less expensive to buy.
 
Messages
2,095
Location
IL
The new Civic Hybrid will get better MPG than even the HX. For a few reasons, it only has a 1.3L 95hp gas engine which will cause it to operate at higher load at hwy speed, thus more efficiently. It also has i-VTEC which reduces pumping loses and adds other efficiency improvements. The HX engine hasn't been upgraded yet.
 
Messages
1,329
Location
South Texas
Hybrids have yet to cost less to operate per mile than conventional gas or diesel vehicles. It takes at least 60k-100k to recoup the cost of the additional price premium for the hybrid system. I think the Honda Hybrid costs about $2500 more than conventional Honda. That's 830 gallons of gas at 33 MPG = 27500 miles. Not buying a Hybrid = saving $$ that would buy gas for 27k miles. Once you figure how much you save from an extra 15%MPG, it takes a LONG TIME to recoup the cost. I think insurance is more also. It costs more for insurance companies to fix a wreck hybrid. Plus after 60-80k miles, you need a new $3k battery pack. You have to drive the same Hybrid for the rest of your life to ever see anyy savings. My friend with '05 Hybrid Prius only gets 44MPG. Thats what a diesel Jetta gets and costs less than prius. Diesel costs less now too. Hybrids see minimal savings at highway cruising.
 
Messages
2,095
Location
IL
Huh? I already calculated it. At MOST the difference would be saved in 2-3yrs. The NEW Civic hybrid is 50city/50hwy MPG. Thats 65% higher city than base and 25% hwy. Sure the hybrid technology itself doesnt have as much effect at hwy... but the 1.3L size and i-vtec sure as heck does. If you drive 8k per year it doesn't make much sense but if you drive nearly 20k like me it sure does. Diesel is not any cheaper around here.
 
Messages
8,711
Location
Nothern USA
We took a trip this summer with them in our daughter's 05 Civic Hybrid. I drove some on both on the interstate and in traffic. We had 4 adults, luggage, and 2 larger dogs. I drove fairly conservatively, but it did fine. I doing you calculations, I wouldn't use $2/gal gas. 5 years from now??????
 
Messages
4,844
Location
Saskatchewan
I ran some numbers through a spreadsheet I made while taking an engineering economics course (used to determine whether it was economically feasible to spend extra money on a diesel pickup truck). I set it up based on the following parameters: MSRP of 2005 Civic Hybrid: cdn$28,500 MSRP of 2005 Civic LX-G: cdn$19,990 Km (miles) per year: 30,000 (20,000) MARR (minimum acceptable rate of return): 5% Annual depreciation: 13% Tax rate on new vehicle: 13% Years of use before selling vehicle: 7 For 50/50 city/highway driving, fuel prices would have to average $2.15 per litre (plus inflation adjustments) over the next 7 years to break even on the extra. Right now, at about $1 per litre, so I don't think it makes economic sense to buy a hybrid yet. Who knows in the future? By the end of the 7 years of this study period (210,000km) the battery warranty is long gone, so there could be additional expenses related to that. Your personal MARR would likely be one of the following: Highest annual interest rate on your loans or mortgages, or your annual average return on investments, whichever is higher. The Civic LX-G appears to have everything that the hybrid does (A/C, cruise), plus a sunroof. If you want me to run different numbers, let me know!
 
Messages
2,095
Location
IL
Well yeah, the prices are off...at least for the USA. I don't know what the LX-G is but the Lx is only $4000USD less than Hybrid for 2005. With Tax credit it may be only $500 difference. And I would keep it at least 15yrs. No way I am buying a brand new car and only keeping it 7yrs. Batteries will probably be much cheaper by the time it needs to be replaced. Trust me I don't WANT a hybrid, [LOL!] but it does make economic sense for me.
 
Messages
4,844
Location
Saskatchewan
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Troxell: Trust me I don't WANT a hybrid, [LOL!] but it does make economic sense for me.
Depending on the operating and purchasing conditions (and, of course, rising fuel prices!), buying a hybrid could be a good choice economically for some. I also found that spending the extra money for a diesel engine over a gas engine in a pickup makes sense a lot of the time, but certainly not always. I just try to encourage people to look deeper into what they're doing, because doing things in the most cost-effective manner is the key to allowing us, as a society, to work less and use less resources to get the same amount done. Many people don't realize that an extra initial purchase cost means that a lot more resources were needed to make it in the first place. Subsidies really bother me because they create artificial markets, wasting time and resources.
 
Messages
7,077
Location
Ontario, Canada
95 HP would be plenty all by itself, without the extra weight of the motor and battery pack. I've driven an automatic 1986 Corola, with the 74 hp 1.6L motor, and it was just able to keep up with traffic. Honda should make the special 1.3L motor available for the non hybrid models. That would probably give 50 mpg without the extra cost of all the hybrid stuff.
 
Messages
18,449
Location
East of IGO
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Troxell: Well yeah, the prices are off...at least for the USA. I don't know what the LX-G is but the Lx is only $4000USD less than Hybrid for 2005. With Tax credit it may be only $500 difference. And I would keep it at least 15yrs. No way I am buying a brand new car and only keeping it 7yrs. Batteries will probably be much cheaper by the time it needs to be replaced. Trust me I don't WANT a hybrid, [LOL!] but it does make economic sense for me.
How much for the repairs on the electronics and battery replacement? I have spoken to a Toyota owner and he was happy over all " Toyota quality" And a Honda owner he also likes his car "Honda quality" I would consider a hybrid but I would wait a few years to see the true cost of ownership. I am also sure the dealer will be gouging on the price now.
 
Messages
6,171
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
buy a used corolla and you'll save $10k plus. if you're looking to save money, a new car is NOT the way to go. get something used that is reliable and gets good gas mileage.
 
Messages
18,449
Location
East of IGO
quote:
Originally posted by blupupher: Doesn't one of the car sites have a calculator to figure out if a hybrid will save you money?
Sometimes the mpg is worth the $$$ spent. My wifes Superduty diesel will take a long while for a payback, but she gets 16 around town and almost 21 mpg on long trips empty. Instead of 10 around town if lucky and 15 on the longer trips with a gasser. The mpg is about equal to my 92 6 cyl 4 wd Toyota.
 
Messages
23,710
Location
CA
I'd simply buy a Corolla, since they can easily get >38MPG if driven conservatively, even with an Automatic. Save the extra money you'd spend on a hybrid for gas. Michael
 
Messages
341
Location
Upstate, NY
Who needs a hybrid? On a recent trip, 240 miles each direction, I was able to achieve 39.5 mpg out and 43 mpg on the way back. All highway driving at about 70 to 85 mph, read as 3300 to 4000 rpm on my little motor. Car is a Hyundai Accent, 1.6L 5 speed. Oh yeah, I was using the ST Full Syn, A3 rated oil. I couldn't believe the 43mpg, but thats what the numbers came out to be, 239 miles, filled the tank right to the gas flap as soon as I got home, about 5.55 gal.
 
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