I was going to do the Mitsu mini-split system in my garage and found the same thing. I could buy the unit for a reasonable price and do most of the work myself, but getting someone out there to finish the job was as much as the unit cost. I ended up not doing it.
HVAC folks - ductless install cost question
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JHZR2
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So I'm even more confused. Looks like a ducted system would cost under $15k for my entire home, versus nearly $17k for four zones on the ductless.
I would think that pulling ducts would be far harder than a few refrigerant lines. The systems and all components are larger, yet the whole thing is cheaper overall.
I just don't get it. The equipment would be about 1/3 of the total cost for the split system, not sure how much a complete central system component set, with ducts and all else, would cost. Still, ductless I'm not pulling ducting in an existing construction. Should still be easier.
I would think that pulling ducts would be far harder than a few refrigerant lines. The systems and all components are larger, yet the whole thing is cheaper overall.
I just don't get it. The equipment would be about 1/3 of the total cost for the split system, not sure how much a complete central system component set, with ducts and all else, would cost. Still, ductless I'm not pulling ducting in an existing construction. Should still be easier.
Odd..my auto mechanic installed one of these himself. I'll ask him next time I see him.
Last year I designed and installed a new A/C duct system for my single floor 1500sf house. Borrowed the ACCA manuals from the library, did a heat/cold load calc., bought R8 duct from an HVAC supplier and went at it. HUGE difference. Turns out I was only getting about 1.8tons of cooling out of a 3 ton unit because the ductwork was so restrictive. It was a hassle working in my attic, hiking around the trusses and having to squat a lot. Did it in the early Spring to avoid attic heat. Total cost in materials was around $600..and LOTS of reading/research time.
Got me to thinking about pursuing this further though. What's it take to get a 'license' to handle refrigerant? I asked myself? Refrigeration isn't rocket engineering, it's temps and gas laws. Basic chemistry.
I agree...those quotes seem steep. But I hear NJ is a pretty expensive state to live in. Good luck.
Last year I designed and installed a new A/C duct system for my single floor 1500sf house. Borrowed the ACCA manuals from the library, did a heat/cold load calc., bought R8 duct from an HVAC supplier and went at it. HUGE difference. Turns out I was only getting about 1.8tons of cooling out of a 3 ton unit because the ductwork was so restrictive. It was a hassle working in my attic, hiking around the trusses and having to squat a lot. Did it in the early Spring to avoid attic heat. Total cost in materials was around $600..and LOTS of reading/research time.
Got me to thinking about pursuing this further though. What's it take to get a 'license' to handle refrigerant? I asked myself? Refrigeration isn't rocket engineering, it's temps and gas laws. Basic chemistry.
I agree...those quotes seem steep. But I hear NJ is a pretty expensive state to live in. Good luck.
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Turns out I was only getting about 1.8tons of cooling out of a 3 ton unit because the ductwork was so restrictive.
...
I agree...those quotes seem steep. But I hear NJ is a pretty expensive state to live in. Good luck.
Not trying to be bias here but are you sure a "good" HVAC guy would do the same thing and end up with only 1.8ton out of a 3 ton system? Maybe it is more than just $600 of material and they actually know something that would make the system less restrictive, and worth the "steep" price they are charging?
Turns out I was only getting about 1.8tons of cooling out of a 3 ton unit because the ductwork was so restrictive.
...
I agree...those quotes seem steep. But I hear NJ is a pretty expensive state to live in. Good luck.
Not trying to be bias here but are you sure a "good" HVAC guy would do the same thing and end up with only 1.8ton out of a 3 ton system? Maybe it is more than just $600 of material and they actually know something that would make the system less restrictive, and worth the "steep" price they are charging?
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Turns out I was only getting about 1.8tons of cooling out of a 3 ton unit because the ductwork was so restrictive.
...
I agree...those quotes seem steep. But I hear NJ is a pretty expensive state to live in. Good luck.
Not trying to be bias here but are you sure a "good" HVAC guy would do the same thing and end up with only 1.8ton out of a 3 ton system? Maybe it is more than just $600 of material and they actually know something that would make the system less restrictive, and worth the "steep" price they are charging?
Not sure where you're going with this. . . I redid my duct system, the OP is talking about a ductless system. He was complaining about the high install cost.
My A/C system WAS installed by a contractor years ago, not by me. They 'guessed' at the load though and obviously didn't size the load to the ducts to the blower table of the unit installed.
I did.
Your response seems a mix of two different situations. . . label me 'confused'.
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Turns out I was only getting about 1.8tons of cooling out of a 3 ton unit because the ductwork was so restrictive.
...
I agree...those quotes seem steep. But I hear NJ is a pretty expensive state to live in. Good luck.
Not trying to be bias here but are you sure a "good" HVAC guy would do the same thing and end up with only 1.8ton out of a 3 ton system? Maybe it is more than just $600 of material and they actually know something that would make the system less restrictive, and worth the "steep" price they are charging?
Not sure where you're going with this. . . I redid my duct system, the OP is talking about a ductless system. He was complaining about the high install cost.
My A/C system WAS installed by a contractor years ago, not by me. They 'guessed' at the load though and obviously didn't size the load to the ducts to the blower table of the unit installed.
I did.
Your response seems a mix of two different situations. . . label me 'confused'.
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Not sure where you're going with this. . . I redid my duct system, the OP is talking about a ductless system. He was complaining about the high install cost.
My A/C system WAS installed by a contractor years ago, not by me. They 'guessed' at the load though and obviously didn't size the load to the ducts to the blower table of the unit installed.
I did.
Your response seems a mix of two different situations. . . label me 'confused'.
Ah, my bad, I'm the one confused instead.
Not sure where you're going with this. . . I redid my duct system, the OP is talking about a ductless system. He was complaining about the high install cost.
My A/C system WAS installed by a contractor years ago, not by me. They 'guessed' at the load though and obviously didn't size the load to the ducts to the blower table of the unit installed.
I did.
Your response seems a mix of two different situations. . . label me 'confused'.
Ah, my bad, I'm the one confused instead.
You could see if you could find someone who works for an apartment complex or maybe a real estate management company and has the license to work with the refrigerant.
Those prices are shocking. I might need to get into a new line of work.
Those prices are shocking. I might need to get into a new line of work.
JHZR2
Staff member
The commentary Ive gotten back is also that HVAC is only a few months a year, so the rest of the year needs to be paid for... Like as if those using the services subsidize the whole year. Seems like a bad model to me.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
The commentary Ive gotten back is also that HVAC is only a few months a year, so the rest of the year needs to be paid for... Like as if those using the services subsidize the whole year. Seems like a bad model to me.
It's a seasonal business, simple supply and demand. Biggest demand is at the beginning of the cooling and heating seasons as people turn on their stuff and find it not working. Then it's steadily busy for several months during the season, then tapers off in the milder months. Of course they charge more when they're getting more calls, and of course they lower their prices when work is slow.
The commentary Ive gotten back is also that HVAC is only a few months a year, so the rest of the year needs to be paid for... Like as if those using the services subsidize the whole year. Seems like a bad model to me.
It's a seasonal business, simple supply and demand. Biggest demand is at the beginning of the cooling and heating seasons as people turn on their stuff and find it not working. Then it's steadily busy for several months during the season, then tapers off in the milder months. Of course they charge more when they're getting more calls, and of course they lower their prices when work is slow.
JHZR2
Staff member
That wasnt the explanation though... It was, "we only work x months per year, so need to make enough".
JHZR2
Staff member
Its more interesting. There was a refrigerant leak in a store I was at down in the Caribbean. Got to talking to the tech about wanting ductless splits in my home in NJ. Told him how I thought the install was expensive.
He asked me if the install was more than $1000, as that was pretty pricey for install there.
Of course the installs he has to do are through solid, rebar concrete, with far harder runs, inability to run wiring in a straightforward manner, etc.
And my install with a really short run, through a hollow plaster/lathe wall and where running wire through the basemnt is super easy is priced at $3000???!?
Oh yeah, he has to run a business, have the EPA certs, training, warranty, parts, refrigerant and recovery systems, healthcare, etc. He is a US citizen and so nothing is really different.
The difference? Gas is $4.79 for regular and electricity is $0.45/kWh versus $3.19 and $0.15 in NJ. And hurricane insurance is really expensive, even if property taxes arent.
So is something wrong with this or what? Seems HVAC is a total ripoff and I was right. I could fly up someone from the VI to do the install for less than hiring my local guy!
He asked me if the install was more than $1000, as that was pretty pricey for install there.
Of course the installs he has to do are through solid, rebar concrete, with far harder runs, inability to run wiring in a straightforward manner, etc.
And my install with a really short run, through a hollow plaster/lathe wall and where running wire through the basemnt is super easy is priced at $3000???!?
Oh yeah, he has to run a business, have the EPA certs, training, warranty, parts, refrigerant and recovery systems, healthcare, etc. He is a US citizen and so nothing is really different.
The difference? Gas is $4.79 for regular and electricity is $0.45/kWh versus $3.19 and $0.15 in NJ. And hurricane insurance is really expensive, even if property taxes arent.
So is something wrong with this or what? Seems HVAC is a total ripoff and I was right. I could fly up someone from the VI to do the install for less than hiring my local guy!
So call him when he's not working and see what the rate would be
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
The commentary Ive gotten back is also that HVAC is only a few months a year, so the rest of the year needs to be paid for... Like as if those using the services subsidize the whole year. Seems like a bad model to me.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
The commentary Ive gotten back is also that HVAC is only a few months a year, so the rest of the year needs to be paid for... Like as if those using the services subsidize the whole year. Seems like a bad model to me.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
So is something wrong with this or what? Seems HVAC is a total ripoff and I was right. I could fly up someone from the VI to do the install for less than hiring my local guy!
But will he be insured and licensed in your state to do it? You could in theory hire someone unlicensed but know what to do on craigslist for the same price too, but would you?
So is something wrong with this or what? Seems HVAC is a total ripoff and I was right. I could fly up someone from the VI to do the install for less than hiring my local guy!
But will he be insured and licensed in your state to do it? You could in theory hire someone unlicensed but know what to do on craigslist for the same price too, but would you?
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
So is something wrong with this or what? Seems HVAC is a total ripoff and I was right. I could fly up someone from the VI to do the install for less than hiring my local guy!
But will he be insured and licensed in your state to do it? You could in theory hire someone unlicensed but know what to do on craigslist for the same price too, but would you?
I'm probably just going to DIY. Point was a guy with higher costs for things like mobility, electricity, insurance, etc. just gave cost basis for what was "high" in another location, and it was 3x lower!
There is no rocket science in most any of the install procedure.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
So is something wrong with this or what? Seems HVAC is a total ripoff and I was right. I could fly up someone from the VI to do the install for less than hiring my local guy!
But will he be insured and licensed in your state to do it? You could in theory hire someone unlicensed but know what to do on craigslist for the same price too, but would you?
I'm probably just going to DIY. Point was a guy with higher costs for things like mobility, electricity, insurance, etc. just gave cost basis for what was "high" in another location, and it was 3x lower!
There is no rocket science in most any of the install procedure.
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