HPL Premium Plus 0w20, 4000 miles, 2020 Honda Accord 2.0T

[The Critic]

It was a recall in China:

Honda 1.5L Engine Suffers Cold-Weather Oil-Dilution Problem

Honda’s direct-injected 1.5L turbo 4-cyl. Earth Dreams engine is creating a nightmare for the company as it tries to resolve a severe gasoline oil-dilution problem it says is caused by cold-weather operation.

www.wardsauto.com

The China comparison is not valid because PCM calibrations can vary significantly depending on the emission standards for a region.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

@harborcat you're probably babying the vehicle, short tripping it, and using low octane gasoline in it. We don't know anything about your conditions, however, suffice to say that I've seen even carboned up Pentastar V6 engines, which are some of the most forgiving out there when it comes to fuel dilution. Again, these were short tripped and poorly taken care of vehicles.

 

[OVERKILL]

The China comparison is not valid because PCM calibrations can vary significantly depending on the emission standards for a region.

I'll argue you on that point, because it was the same issue that people in northern climates experienced in North America. The Chinese government forced the recall, North American ones didn't and appeared satisfied by the voluntary campaign.

The reality is of course that the issue persists, the reprogram didn't eliminate it, just reduced rate of occurrence. IMHO, Honda should look at what Toyota is doing with D-4S (which Ford is now also doing) and consider following suit, since it seems their DI-only implementation is utter trash.

 

[tolian21]

It is an expected level of dilution on these vehicles

You think Honda engineers designed it like this and said, yup, thats all good? Toyota is different, but the point is that others made attempts to mitigate it, while Honda just let it go and hoping for the best

 

[harborcat]

@harborcat you're probably babying the vehicle, short tripping it, and using low octane gasoline in it. We don't know anything about your conditions, however, suffice to say that I've seen even carboned up Pentastar V6 engines, which are some of the most forgiving out there when it comes to fuel dilution. Again, these were short tripped and poorly taken care of vehicles.

Car is tuned with upgraded turbo, etc--but I don't race, track it, or push it (too) hard. My commute to work is 100+ miles, so it's mostly highway. Always 93 octane. My conclusion after my previous UOA and reading the posts/advice from it was that this level of fuel dilution is likely inevitable with my set up. Mobil 1 EP 0w20 diluted down to 16 wt viscosity after 4000 miles. In contrast, HPL premium plus 0w20 maintained its viscosity in the 20 wt range under similar conditions and with similar dilution. As Dave (and many others) suggested, I put 0w30 in this time. Since it starts at a higher viscosity, it may not dip below the 20 wt viscosity level, even with significant dilution.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Fuel dilution doesn't only translate to viscosity loss. Fuel degrades the oil, ZDDP loses its effectiveness, etc. If you don't want to address the issue head-on as to why your engine dilutes the lubricant with fuel, then at the very least you need to seriously beef up the oil you're using by going to a Euro additivr package. I recommend HPL NO-VII 5W-30 Euro or HPL NO-VII 10W-30 Euro. You will get a bit more protection out of these oils given your circumstances. However, the problem needs to be addressed.

 

[DirectRejection]

A lot of this must be driving conditions.

My work friend has a Civic Hatchback with the 1.5T GDI. After 300k+ miles, under driving conditions obviously nearly identical to mine, he reports no issues.

I have driven first a Lexus UX and now a Corolla Cross, both with 2.0L D-4S. I am up well over 200k miles total accrued.

My oil change last week was a big giant "nothing to see here." Like always, I looked at and smelled my constantly dipstick for 20k miles and all is normal.

It is definitely something for all motorists to be diligent and proactive about.

 

[OVERKILL]

A lot of this must be driving conditions.

My work friend has a Civic Hatchback with the 1.5T GDI. After 300k+ miles, under driving conditions obviously nearly identical to mine, he reports no issues.

I have driven first a Lexus UX and now a Corolla Cross, both with 2.0L D-4S. I am up well over 200k miles total accrued.

My oil change last week was a big giant "nothing to see here." Like always, I looked at and smelled my constantly dipstick for 20k miles and all is normal.

It is definitely something for all motorists to be diligent and proactive about.

You live where it's hot, lol. The big issues with the 1.5 are where it's cold.

 

[dkryan]

Car is tuned with upgraded turbo, etc--but I don't race, track it, or push it (too) hard. My commute to work is 100+ miles, so it's mostly highway. Always 93 octane. My conclusion after my previous UOA and reading the posts/advice from it was that this level of fuel dilution is likely inevitable with my set up. Mobil 1 EP 0w20 diluted down to 16 wt viscosity after 4000 miles. In contrast, HPL premium plus 0w20 maintained its viscosity in the 20 wt range under similar conditions and with similar dilution. As Dave (and many others) suggested, I put 0w30 in this time. Since it starts at a higher viscosity, it may not dip below the 20 wt viscosity level, even with significant dilution.

How long do you intend to run the 0w-30?

 

[Revving2Redline]

I've been running 0w30 m1 and I siphoned out today 3 quarts. OLM was at 40 percent, so I did a freshen up. I think that 0w30 is about as low as I would go in these GDI engines. Had over 6,000 miles driven when I changed it so apparently the ecu thinks highway 🛣 driving is easier. Too windy to drain today and with my mom doing another round of chemo since her platelet count was high enough I don't want to show up over there and have her worrying about me getting underneath the car. Bought Mobil 1 in store for 24.xx for 5 qt jug. I was happy with that deal. Managed to recycle the three I siphoned out and the lubetech said that some of these cars come in with oil changes where it reeks of petrol during the drain.

 

[Danh]

I've been running 0w30 m1 and I siphoned out today 3 quarts. OLM was at 40 percent, so I did a freshen up. I think that 0w30 is about as low as I would go in these GDI engines. Had over 6,000 miles driven when I changed it so apparently the ecu thinks highway 🛣 driving is easier. Too windy to drain today and with my mom doing another round of chemo since her platelet count was high enough I don't want to show up over there and have her worrying about me getting underneath the car. Bought Mobil 1 in store for 24.xx for 5 qt jug. I was happy with that deal. Managed to recycle the three I siphoned out and the lubetech said that some of these cars come in with oil changes where it reeks of petrol during the drain.

If you have 212,000 miles on what I assume is a Honda 1.5 TGDI engine, maybe fuel dilution isn’t the catastrophe we think it is. So don’t worry, be happy?

 

[tolian21]

If you have 212,000 miles on what I assume is a Honda 1.5 TGDI engine, maybe fuel dilution isn’t the catastrophe we think it is. So don’t worry, be happy?

Many people have over 200k miles on 1.5TGDI?? I would imagine its all highway driving.

 

[harborcat]

How long do you intend to run the 0w-30?

5000 miles and do another UOA.

 

[Danh]

Many people have over 200k miles on 1.5TGDI?? I would imagine its all highway driving.

Probably, but the things dilute even during highway driving.

 

[dkryan]

5000 miles and do another UOA.

Thanks, harborcat.

And sympathies.

Though that isn’t why you made your original post.

With all due respect, and depending upon how that 5k mile mostly highway OCI works out, I would do this assuming I’m in your driver’s seat:

Absent “total love” on your UOA with HPL 0w-30 for that OCI,

I go to Costco and purchase a two pack of Kirkland 5w-30 full synthetic and run each for 4k miles. Wait to perform a UOA after the second run.

Absent a Costco membership, I go to Walmart (in person or online) and purchase two containers of their Supertech 20k mile 5w-30 and run them for a 4k mile OCI. Again, a UOA after the second run.

With the 2.0T and your 100 mile commute you’re having to perform an OCI roughly every two months.

Fortunately it’s almost all highway miles. But with the cost for HPL and UOAs, you might be better served with a “stout” off the shelf 5w-30 and just stop worrying about it.

Or trade it in for a non-Honda.

Good luck!

 

[dnewton3]

5000 miles and do another UOA.

Please make sure to note the IOLM % at that 5k miles; would be interesting to see what the factory interpretation value is at.

 

[TiGeo]

Folks want so badly for the oil to have magical properties to do this and that and in the end, UOAs don't really show any differences going from XYZ brand to top-of-the-line stuff like HPL. If you have fuel dilution you have fuel dilution, the answer is reduce OCI if it bothers you or you think it's causing issues. It has to be pretty bad/egregious to really be a concern anyway and HPL should be providing ample protection even with a bit of fuel. Have you talked to Dave/HPL and ask him his opinion on how to long to run their oil with this amount of fuel dilution?

 

[TiGeo]

I wonder if someone will eventually make the claim that their oil functions, even in high fuel dilution circumstances.

Someone just needs to ask Dave w/HPL this question.

 

[TiGeo]

HPL oils have a lot of SiO2 vs. other oils I've used - about 10ppm in VOA for the Euro variants so that is totally normal to see a bit more SiO2 than normal.

 

[TiGeo]

These were my first UOAs. As others are posting, this engine has known dilution issues and mine is probably worse because it is tuned.

Tuning certainly increases it w/more boost/cylinder pressure.

OP - I can't for some reason see all of the UOA in the OP?