How will 2024 CAFE standards impact your buying?

[supton]

https://news.yahoo.com/warren-buffett-famously-loves-mcdonalds-163104691.html

Heh, would not have guessed. Still. One person out of many does not undo a trend. And arguably he’s at the tail end of a tail, when it comes to net worth.

 

[edyvw]

https://news.yahoo.com/warren-buffett-famously-loves-mcdonalds-163104691.html

I think he also drives 20yrs old Cadillac. I don’t see them many on the street, if at all.

 

[4WD]

I think he also drives 20yrs old Cadillac. I don’t see them many on the street, if at all.

2014 XTS so he’s not due for a while …

 

[Bjornviken]

Alot of panic for 49 mpg, that's 5.8l/100. A diesel bmw x5 could do that easy. Golf gte plug in hybrid can do 246mpg

 

[edyvw]

2014 XTS so he’s not due for a while …

2-3yrs before rusts out in NE?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Nope.
Thailand

Watch out for those lady boys unless you're into that sort of thing. Lol

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Subsidizing doesn’t transfer to cost of vehicle. We subsidize A LOT of stuff, including gasoline production.
We had cheap money for a long time , as you noted. We also developed cultural traits where everyone must own 7-8 passenger vehicle, 4,000sq. ft house etc. and when you mention something, they invoke good ole days, when average house was 958sq. ft. people were dying left and right bcs. cars were rolling coffins etc.
Today’s progress in automotive world was brought to you by government regulation. Otherwise, FORD would still claim that airbags are replacement for seat belts and ABS would still be argued by many manufacturers to be a death trap.

Yep. However when I mention subsidy I'm talking about an automaker selling ICE at a higher price to offset the cost of their inhouse BEV development. Seems like everyone is going all in on BEV so they're all under the same competitive/regulatory pressure.

We need a recession!! *Joking*

 

[Elkins45]

@Elkins45, What maintenance costs? I'm familiar with maintaining hybrids: 12 years with Sweetie's Prius, 10 years helping my friend Linda, seven friends have hybrids and I'm familiar with their maintenance regimes and requirements. None of these cars, over a period of more than a decade, has had maintenance costs greater than any straight ICE vehicle I'm familiar with. These cars have all been Toyota products except for one Chevrolet.

I’ve never owned a hybrid or EV but I do own cameras, flashlights, etc. Rechargeable batteries have a finite life and I’m told it’s $$$ to replace them. There’s a reasonable chance I will never have to replace the engine or transmission of my ICE car but a 100% chance an EV or hybrid will need a new battery.

 

[Elkins45]

No. Most people don't understand Cafe.

First, its for the "average" passenger vehicle, and its based on a typical cars footprint - which is track x wheelbase. If your footprint is larger, your Cafe number increases - which is another reason OEM's are making larger cars - with the wheels pushed way forward and back.

Pickup trucks are there own category, and pickups with GVWR over 8500 lbs are yet another category, and there are different gas guzzler rules for trucks even if you don't make the required average.

THere are also other caveats. For example in 2012 the Nissan Leaf was calculated at 0mpg - or infinite mileage - no matter how much coal the power plant used.

And if your fleet doesn't meet the requirements, you can just buy offset credits from someone like Tesla.

So yes, its essentially a game / scam / lie - pick your adjective.

Isn’t this one of the reasons regular cab pickups have become so rare?

 

[edyvw]

Yep. However when I mention subsidy I'm talking about an automaker selling ICE at a higher price to offset the cost of their inhouse BEV development. Seems like everyone is going all in on BEV so they're all under the same competitive/regulatory pressure.

We need a recession!! *Joking*

Not really. Subsidizing means that govt. will encourage that product. In the end, they will make money. There is definitely an issue around the affordability of EV, but that is why a policy is flexible and not set in stone. CAFE was supposed to be 54+mpg, but now it is 49mpg in 2026. But, these same manufacturers don't mind taking government bailouts when they end up in bankruptcy, bcs. their own fault.
Actually, many of them would never keep up with other manufacturers if there was no government regulation. In the end, they would end up completely outmatched on the technological front. One could argue our subsidies to the oil industry and cheap gas led to engineering inferiority when it comes to downsizing.
Eventually, the world will move to EV, but that is going to be after many of us are departed somewhere else. Those today that throw temper tantrums around this are really doing it for other reasons, mostly bcs. need to be pissed at something.

 

[edyvw]

I’ve never owned a hybrid or EV but I do own cameras, flashlights, etc. Rechargeable batteries have a finite life and I’m told it’s $$$ to replace them. There’s a reasonable chance I will never have to replace the engine or transmission of my ICE car but a 100% chance an EV or hybrid will need a new battery.

There is a higher chance of changing the engine on your Chevrolet or transmission on a Nissan than the battery on Prius.

 

[Shel_B]

I’ve never owned a hybrid or EV but I do own cameras, flashlights, etc. Rechargeable batteries have a finite life and I’m told it’s $$$ to replace them. There’s a reasonable chance I will never have to replace the engine or transmission of my ICE car but a 100% chance an EV or hybrid will need a new battery.

IOW, you're comparing a hybrid automobile to a flashlight and assuming batteries will need frequent replacement.

As I said, Sweetie's Prius was 12 years old (and is still being used by her grandson, making it almost 14 years old now) and has never had a problem with the battery (except the one in her key fob), much less needing a replacement. Linda's Prius has now gone more than 10 years with no battery issues. Both cars have been used in a way that's least advantageous to battery longevity: i.e., sitting unused for days at a time and lots of short trip driving.

Not one other person I know personally has had any battery issues and ownership length has been between 3 and eight years now. Toyotas have been known to run without any battery issues for up to as many as 250,000 miles, which is impressive for any car! There are numerous instances where the battery has lasted about 350,000 miles.

These numbers in both years and mileage compare well, and are perhaps even better than, ICE transmissions and many ICE engines. See the example below.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/have-you-driven-a-ford-lately.363627/post-6457380

We can both throw numbers around and point out outliers for both systems but in reality, the hybrid batteries on many models will generally outlast engines and transmissions on many ICE vehicles, just as some batteries will not last as long due mostly to poor or improper maintenance. They've been around a long time and they are no longer new, unproven technology. Treat 'em right and they'll last.

 

[Bud]

I am hoping the car I have now is my last. I drive less and less each year.

 

[edyvw]

IOW, you're comparing a hybrid automobile to a flashlight and assuming batteries will need frequent replacement.

As I said, Sweetie's Prius was 12 years old (and is still being used by her grandson, making it almost 14 years old now) and has never had a problem with the battery (except the one in her key fob), much less needing a replacement. Linda's Prius has now gone more than 10 years with no battery issues. Both cars have been used in a way that's least advantageous to battery longevity: i.e., sitting unused for days at a time and lots of short trip driving.

Not one other person I know personally has had any battery issues and ownership length has been between 3 and eight years now. Toyotas have been known to run without any battery issues for up to as many as 250,000 miles, which is impressive for any car! There are numerous instances where the battery has lasted about 350,000 miles.

These numbers in both years and mileage compare well, and are perhaps even better than, ICE transmissions and many ICE engines. See the example below.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/have-you-driven-a-ford-lately.363627/post-6457380

We can both throw numbers around and point out outliers for both systems but in reality, the hybrid batteries on many models will generally outlast engines and transmissions on many ICE vehicles, just as some batteries will not last as long due mostly to poor or improper maintenance. They've been around a long time and they are no longer new, unproven technology. Treat 'em right and they'll last.

As far as I know, main culprit behind failed batteries is clogged filter.

 

[supton]

I am hoping the car I have now is my last. I drive less and less each year.

I've been driving less, but I sure am hoping that a '99 Camry will *NOT* be my last car. I know it won't be, road salt will catch it soon enough. Just don't know what I want next, some days I wouldn't mind the newer tech, some days I want something old and cool, and all days I don't want to pay for either.

 

[SC Maintenance]

We subsidize A LOT of stuff, including gasoline production.

I have looked and looked for this - and can not find them. Even the anti fossil fuel groups can only site legitimate tax write offs - for example you can write off the cost of drilling a well - just like any other business can write off legitimate business expenses. Some people don't like this.

As for producing gasoline specifically - the refiners are forced to blend in ethanol - which costs them more than gas, but the ethanol is likely subsidized through farm subsidies - so if your counting that OK.

Legitimate question. Many people keep saying fossil fuels are subsidized, yet can not site a reasonable example of such, other than accounting methods that similar businesses can also use.

https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fa...-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs

 

[JHZR2]

Ah the promise of the small turbo that makes 150hp/liter and uses every bit as much gas as any other engine that produces 300hp. This promise never came to fruition, especially if someone has a heavy foot. This could work is the smaller turbo also made less power but who wants that?

That’s a good point.

Just did an I-95 road trip. The number of idiots doing bumper to bumper 85 mph driving was insane.

Going back to 1980s power levels with 2020s engine efficiency would help a lot. But beyond a point, aerodynamics are what? Cubic? So power requirements increase at the 3rd power of speed? So huge. And wasteful.

Going slower is the answer. Slower within reason without traffic.

 

[Elkins45]

Going slower is the answer. Slower within reason without traffic.

My Mazda 6 has a non-turbo 2.5L engine and I’m getting an average of slightly over 35mpg with a mix of rural and highway driving. Speed is only part of the answer. I‘m being punished indirectly by way of restricted future vehicle choices because someone wants to use their F350 as a daily driver. When half the vehicles on the road have V8 engines and aren’t legally classified as ‘cars’ then that’s not something that slowing down can fix.

 

[edyvw]

I have looked and looked for this - and can not find them. Even the anti fossil fuel groups can only site legitimate tax write offs - for example you can write off the cost of drilling a well - just like any other business can write off legitimate business expenses. Some people don't like this.

As for producing gasoline specifically - the refiners are forced to blend in ethanol - which costs them more than gas, but the ethanol is likely subsidized through farm subsidies - so if your counting that OK.

Legitimate question. Many people keep saying fossil fuels are subsidized, yet can not site a reasonable example of such, other than accounting methods that similar businesses can also use.

https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fa...-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs

Of course we subsidize it. You have direct and indirect subsidies.
We didn’t raise taxes on gasoline and diesel since 1993. We have to make it up from somewhere for infrastructure maintenance.
1/4 of our DoD budget is used for maintaining flow of oil. Land/leas subsidized etc.
Some if that is of course justified, in order to keep world economy going. Some is done so that Bob down the street can still drive his 3/4 tone pick up and feel secure about himself.

 

[eljefino]

Some if that is of course justified, in order to keep world economy going.

This is what many don't get about the benevolent role of government. Run at a profit, deficit, or wash it's nice to have

-- a post office, for sending bills, merchandise, technical resources

-- a highway system

-- R&D that got us the internet

In America because people like moving around we get airline subsidies, train subsidies, and, you guessed it...