please try again http://members.aol.com/fmtrvt/OilStudy/current.pdf
How great is the difference?
- Thread starter Mystic
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Norm;
I agree 100%. Synthetic lubricants are outstanding, and are the wave of the future. My issue is that the case has not been made that using synthetic engine oil, in the current engine & filtration configurations of cars, will make a difference for the AVERAGE driver that justifies the additional cost.
I am also not convinced that auto engines are not currently lasting "long enough" relative to the longevity of the rest of the vehicle. Nor am I convinced that there is (by and large) an overwhelming desire to expand vehicle lifespan beyond the current average of 15 years, given the fact that there is generally a constant demand for innovation in safety, comfort, capability and style. Obviously, if you have a car that will be a "classic" and you want it to last forever, do whatever it takes! Most people's daily transport (mine included) does not fit into this category.
I'm all for synthetics if the rigor of the application calls for it, or if you can get it to work out financially. For instance, vehicles at either extreme of temperature (Siberia or Sahara) should probably have it. Over the road trucks with bypass filtration (who can get hundreds of thousands of miles out of synthetic oils in recent tests) are getting their money's worth, both in terms of truck longevity, fuel economy (that's where 0.5% makes a difference) and oil change savings.
IMHO the average car owner who spends $5 or more a quart for synthetic so that they can "feel better because they are using the best" is being taken in by the advertisers. Look no further than 'Syntec' on that one. People who use Amsoil or other long drain synthetics, but only drive 12K miles a year are not getting their money's worth either.
I wonder what we'll have to debate once the fuel cell vehicles take over?
Matt
I agree 100%. Synthetic lubricants are outstanding, and are the wave of the future. My issue is that the case has not been made that using synthetic engine oil, in the current engine & filtration configurations of cars, will make a difference for the AVERAGE driver that justifies the additional cost.
I am also not convinced that auto engines are not currently lasting "long enough" relative to the longevity of the rest of the vehicle. Nor am I convinced that there is (by and large) an overwhelming desire to expand vehicle lifespan beyond the current average of 15 years, given the fact that there is generally a constant demand for innovation in safety, comfort, capability and style. Obviously, if you have a car that will be a "classic" and you want it to last forever, do whatever it takes! Most people's daily transport (mine included) does not fit into this category.
I'm all for synthetics if the rigor of the application calls for it, or if you can get it to work out financially. For instance, vehicles at either extreme of temperature (Siberia or Sahara) should probably have it. Over the road trucks with bypass filtration (who can get hundreds of thousands of miles out of synthetic oils in recent tests) are getting their money's worth, both in terms of truck longevity, fuel economy (that's where 0.5% makes a difference) and oil change savings.
IMHO the average car owner who spends $5 or more a quart for synthetic so that they can "feel better because they are using the best" is being taken in by the advertisers. Look no further than 'Syntec' on that one. People who use Amsoil or other long drain synthetics, but only drive 12K miles a year are not getting their money's worth either.
I wonder what we'll have to debate once the fuel cell vehicles take over?
Matt
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I think that the evolution of the current extended drain intervals is more a product of public policy than it is of preferred maintenance practices.
Much like the "use regular 87 octane fuel because premium fuel will do your engine no good" line. This staement is NOT intended to say "You will perceive NO benefit in performance under ANY conditions with the use of higher octane fuel" ..which would be a lie. It merely wants to despell the myth that there is some inherent benefit to buying premium fuel with regard to quality.
I imagine that the auto manufacturers were called to task to reduce consumption of oil resources and to somewhat provide "adaquate" longevity to the technology that they produce today.
When I bought my 92 Caravan the owner's manual had the standard rhetorical "normal" and severe duty mileage intervals .... but a seperate publication from the dealer (a fairly high quality printing) STRONGLY recommended the 3month/3000 mile oil drain interval.
Oddly (coincidentally-actually) enough the 3.0 Mitsubishi (I still have it w/158,000 miles) would have ZERO oil consumption ...until that mileage expired (around 4000) ..where it would then consume oil. This happened whether it was M1 ..or dino. So I just ended up changing it when it consumed its first quart of oil.
The average American (or euro or asian -French and Italian MAY not qualify) automobile will last at least 100,000 miles with marginal maintenance before its ready for the junkyard. I would think that there would be a desire to have the technology refreshed in a timely manner. We used to view 100,000 miles as some kind of level of achievment....but it is now quite commonplace.
Perhaps they desire a ten year (plus or minus) limit before a vehicle is forced into retirement.
Gary Allen wrires "We used to view 100k miles as some kind of level of achievement...but it is now quite commonplace."
Ain't progress wonderful
?
Sure enough: the cars really are better. More complex, much more expen$ive when new. More expen$ive to repair. Generally of higher quality.
Maintenace is much simplified: other than changing the oil & filter twice as often as the "regular" interval I would suggest that IF you do the other few things they require (plugs, filters, etc.) about TWICE AS OFTEN and actually DO the coolant, brake & transmission fluid services on a regular basis, a good car should be able to go 200K without major repair.
If you actually fix and replace things as they wear out and don't wreck it 1st!
What distinguishes a good USED car (or truck) buy from one that is not so good?
ANSWER: the "quality" of the previous owner(s)!
I can't believe the number of certain model used cars that show up in the Portland paper (rag?) in the Sat. edition. Typically 4 sections, today it was a total of 34 pages!
Anyway, lots of Honda, Subaru, Toyota cars with 80, 90 and 100K+ miles. Trucks with 150K. Some a beat to death, of course. Some have been taken care of and are better buys than other identical vehicles with half (or less!) their mileage because somebody took care of them. It also looks like every purchaser of a VW wants to sell
it?
Gary, in the 50-60's Midwest where I grew up you replaced your family car every three years or it would start to literally fall apart before your eyes. The GM guys with the factory discount got a new whatever every year: Caddilac to Corvette to Biscayne. Chrysler's 5/50 powertrain warranty usually lasted far beyond the 1st outbreak of rust.
People drove a lot less miles on average back then. Didn't change jobs every 2 years, either!
Ain't progress wonderful
Sure enough: the cars really are better. More complex, much more expen$ive when new. More expen$ive to repair. Generally of higher quality.
Maintenace is much simplified: other than changing the oil & filter twice as often as the "regular" interval I would suggest that IF you do the other few things they require (plugs, filters, etc.) about TWICE AS OFTEN and actually DO the coolant, brake & transmission fluid services on a regular basis, a good car should be able to go 200K without major repair.
If you actually fix and replace things as they wear out and don't wreck it 1st!
What distinguishes a good USED car (or truck) buy from one that is not so good?
ANSWER: the "quality" of the previous owner(s)!
I can't believe the number of certain model used cars that show up in the Portland paper (rag?) in the Sat. edition. Typically 4 sections, today it was a total of 34 pages!
Anyway, lots of Honda, Subaru, Toyota cars with 80, 90 and 100K+ miles. Trucks with 150K. Some a beat to death, of course. Some have been taken care of and are better buys than other identical vehicles with half (or less!) their mileage because somebody took care of them. It also looks like every purchaser of a VW wants to sell
it?
Gary, in the 50-60's Midwest where I grew up you replaced your family car every three years or it would start to literally fall apart before your eyes. The GM guys with the factory discount got a new whatever every year: Caddilac to Corvette to Biscayne. Chrysler's 5/50 powertrain warranty usually lasted far beyond the 1st outbreak of rust.
People drove a lot less miles on average back then. Didn't change jobs every 2 years, either!
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