I would not assume that the difference between "full" and "add" is one quart. According to the owner's manual it is 1.7 liters on my Volvo. That engine has a 6.1 quart sump, so running a quart low doesn't bother me all that much. Would it not be safe to assume that the difference between full and add is influenced by the size of the sump?
How far down before adding oil?
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Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I wait until the add line/message/whatever.
The middle of the dipstick doesn't say "add a half quart."
Exactly!
The range between full and add is a safe range for oil level with some margin built in.
Adding more oil while within this range accomplishes nothing and obsessively topping off the oil may lead to the conclusion that an engine is using oil when it's really using very little and could be safely run for an entire OCI with no adds at all.
The dipstick is not a precision instrument and oil level as measured with the dipstick will vary with temperature and whatever mild grade the car in question is parked on.
Some cars also have notoriously difficult to read dipsticks.
I wait until the add line/message/whatever.
The middle of the dipstick doesn't say "add a half quart."
Exactly!
The range between full and add is a safe range for oil level with some margin built in.
Adding more oil while within this range accomplishes nothing and obsessively topping off the oil may lead to the conclusion that an engine is using oil when it's really using very little and could be safely run for an entire OCI with no adds at all.
The dipstick is not a precision instrument and oil level as measured with the dipstick will vary with temperature and whatever mild grade the car in question is parked on.
Some cars also have notoriously difficult to read dipsticks.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I wait until the add line/message/whatever.
The middle of the dipstick doesn't say "add a half quart."
Exactly!
The range between full and add is a safe range for oil level with some margin built in.
Adding more oil while within this range accomplishes nothing and obsessively topping off the oil may lead to the conclusion that an engine is using oil when it's really using very little and could be safely run for an entire OCI with no adds at all.
The dipstick is not a precision instrument and oil level as measured with the dipstick will vary with temperature and whatever mild grade the car in question is parked on.
Some cars also have notoriously difficult to read dipsticks.
And some engines, for whatever reason, like to live at a certain level. You can spend 10k miles topping up a ¼ or ½ quart at a time, or leave it at the half mark and it will stay there for 10k.
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I wait until the add line/message/whatever.
The middle of the dipstick doesn't say "add a half quart."
Exactly!
The range between full and add is a safe range for oil level with some margin built in.
Adding more oil while within this range accomplishes nothing and obsessively topping off the oil may lead to the conclusion that an engine is using oil when it's really using very little and could be safely run for an entire OCI with no adds at all.
The dipstick is not a precision instrument and oil level as measured with the dipstick will vary with temperature and whatever mild grade the car in question is parked on.
Some cars also have notoriously difficult to read dipsticks.
And some engines, for whatever reason, like to live at a certain level. You can spend 10k miles topping up a ¼ or ½ quart at a time, or leave it at the half mark and it will stay there for 10k.
My Mazda uses no oil. 4 qt of oil with a filter changer leaves the level half way between the marks. The second oil change, when I leave the oil old filter in place, brings it pretty near full mark with 4 qt. I wouldn't add oil unless it was touching the bottom mark.
Originally Posted By: blupupher
Originally Posted By: Trav
I don't have any oil users (if they use oil I fix them) ...
Easier said than done.
Some vehicles just use oil with nothing to "fix" unless you do a complete rebuild. Sure you can check and replace some things, but as said before, some vehicles use oil from new and is considered normal.
If I took my truck in saying it was using half a quart every 3000 miles and to fix it they would run me out of town on a rail. Both Silverados I have owned have used oil at this rate, seems pretty acceptable.
Originally Posted By: Trav
I don't have any oil users (if they use oil I fix them) ...
Easier said than done.
Some vehicles just use oil with nothing to "fix" unless you do a complete rebuild. Sure you can check and replace some things, but as said before, some vehicles use oil from new and is considered normal.
If I took my truck in saying it was using half a quart every 3000 miles and to fix it they would run me out of town on a rail. Both Silverados I have owned have used oil at this rate, seems pretty acceptable.
I'll add when it's halfway done the hatches.
The 4.2 V6 in my F150 always registers half way into the cross hatch area after adding the required 6 qts. of oil. This is my 3rd 4.2 V6 F150. I have read that some owners don't believe FORD about this and add an extra 1/2 qt. anyway. SMH!
For trucks and tractors, we check at the start of every work day. If it's low, it gets filled to the full mark and logged. In a 12 hour work day, either will run down a 1/2 gallon for the droolers and nada for the tight ones. If they are using more than that, they go to the shop to see what's up. Oil's cheap, down-time is not ...
For passenger cars and trucks, it's about how far I expect to drive. If it's the grocery, I don't care. If I'm going to Oregon or So Cal, it will be full before I pull out.
For passenger cars and trucks, it's about how far I expect to drive. If it's the grocery, I don't care. If I'm going to Oregon or So Cal, it will be full before I pull out.
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
For trucks and tractors, we check at the start of every work day. If it's low, it gets filled to the full mark and logged. In a 12 hour work day, either will run down a 1/2 gallon for the droolers and nada for the tight ones. If they are using more than that, they go to the shop to see what's up. Oil's cheap, down-time is not ...
For passenger cars and trucks, it's about how far I expect to drive. If it's the grocery, I don't care. If I'm going to Oregon or So Cal, it will be full before I pull out.
What if you know it's full of oil per the owners manual, yet, the dipstick still reads half way until full, like in the case of my engine? Are you going to STILL add more oil? I usually make a funny statement to the F150 owners that add that extra oil, stating that they must have that very rare oil pan that holds 6.5 qts. instead of the required 6 qts.
For trucks and tractors, we check at the start of every work day. If it's low, it gets filled to the full mark and logged. In a 12 hour work day, either will run down a 1/2 gallon for the droolers and nada for the tight ones. If they are using more than that, they go to the shop to see what's up. Oil's cheap, down-time is not ...
For passenger cars and trucks, it's about how far I expect to drive. If it's the grocery, I don't care. If I'm going to Oregon or So Cal, it will be full before I pull out.
What if you know it's full of oil per the owners manual, yet, the dipstick still reads half way until full, like in the case of my engine? Are you going to STILL add more oil? I usually make a funny statement to the F150 owners that add that extra oil, stating that they must have that very rare oil pan that holds 6.5 qts. instead of the required 6 qts.
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
And some engines, for whatever reason, like to live at a certain level. You can spend 10k miles topping up a ¼ or ½ quart at a time, or leave it at the half mark and it will stay there for 10k.
I'd like to know what those reasons could be other than the crank shift whipping up the oil near the surface. And with proper engine design, you wouldn't think that even with the engine oil 100% full per the dipstick that any windage would occur. I can't think of any reason other than lousy specced oil (no anti-foamers) why it would want to live happily at half full yet not so happy at 100% full. I've never owned a car that behaved like that.
As far as dipsticks being notoriously hard to read. All it takes is practice. I always check the back of the dip stick as well as it often gives a better reading than the front...ideally both sides should agree. I've owned about 25 cars over 40 years and never was I not highly proficient and accurate in reading the dipsticks. Sometimes you have to take multiple readings as even dragging the stick out along the tube can mess up your reading. I always check my engine oil level cold so that I'm consistent there.
One possible benefit of not adding new oil before the OCI is that the new stuff might actually work to start breaking down the AW layers already built up. I have no idea if the effect of only adding 2-4 oz at a time (multiple times) would be less of an issue than dumping in a fresh quart all at once 2/3 or 3/4 of the way through the OCI. Splitting hairs I know. It might only be the difference between going 235K miles vs. 250K miles. The benefit of having the oil sump full is having a better cooling reserve during hot summer months.
And some engines, for whatever reason, like to live at a certain level. You can spend 10k miles topping up a ¼ or ½ quart at a time, or leave it at the half mark and it will stay there for 10k.
I'd like to know what those reasons could be other than the crank shift whipping up the oil near the surface. And with proper engine design, you wouldn't think that even with the engine oil 100% full per the dipstick that any windage would occur. I can't think of any reason other than lousy specced oil (no anti-foamers) why it would want to live happily at half full yet not so happy at 100% full. I've never owned a car that behaved like that.
As far as dipsticks being notoriously hard to read. All it takes is practice. I always check the back of the dip stick as well as it often gives a better reading than the front...ideally both sides should agree. I've owned about 25 cars over 40 years and never was I not highly proficient and accurate in reading the dipsticks. Sometimes you have to take multiple readings as even dragging the stick out along the tube can mess up your reading. I always check my engine oil level cold so that I'm consistent there.
One possible benefit of not adding new oil before the OCI is that the new stuff might actually work to start breaking down the AW layers already built up. I have no idea if the effect of only adding 2-4 oz at a time (multiple times) would be less of an issue than dumping in a fresh quart all at once 2/3 or 3/4 of the way through the OCI. Splitting hairs I know. It might only be the difference between going 235K miles vs. 250K miles. The benefit of having the oil sump full is having a better cooling reserve during hot summer months.
Originally Posted By: Run
If its halfway to ADD I would top up.
Even if said vehicle has the required amount of oil in the oil pan, you would STILL add oil until it read FULL? You're one of THEM.
THEM; those that have that rare, only one mold was made, oil pan.
If its halfway to ADD I would top up.
Even if said vehicle has the required amount of oil in the oil pan, you would STILL add oil until it read FULL? You're one of THEM.
THEM; those that have that rare, only one mold was made, oil pan.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
The 4.2 V6 in my F150 always registers half way into the cross hatch area after adding the required 6 qts. of oil. This is my 3rd 4.2 V6 F150. I have read that some owners don't believe FORD about this and add an extra 1/2 qt. anyway. SMH!
Maybe for you, when I put in as many qts that the manual says I am at the full line. So halfway in the in the marks I add.
The 4.2 V6 in my F150 always registers half way into the cross hatch area after adding the required 6 qts. of oil. This is my 3rd 4.2 V6 F150. I have read that some owners don't believe FORD about this and add an extra 1/2 qt. anyway. SMH!
Maybe for you, when I put in as many qts that the manual says I am at the full line. So halfway in the in the marks I add.
Originally Posted By: ChevyBadger
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
The 4.2 V6 in my F150 always registers half way into the cross hatch area after adding the required 6 qts. of oil. This is my 3rd 4.2 V6 F150. I have read that some owners don't believe FORD about this and add an extra 1/2 qt. anyway. SMH!
Maybe for you, when I put in as many qts that the manual says I am at the full line. So halfway in the in the marks I add.
Even though you KNOW you've added the correct amount of oil, you still add more oil? SMH!
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
The 4.2 V6 in my F150 always registers half way into the cross hatch area after adding the required 6 qts. of oil. This is my 3rd 4.2 V6 F150. I have read that some owners don't believe FORD about this and add an extra 1/2 qt. anyway. SMH!
Maybe for you, when I put in as many qts that the manual says I am at the full line. So halfway in the in the marks I add.
Even though you KNOW you've added the correct amount of oil, you still add more oil? SMH!
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ChevyBadger
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
The 4.2 V6 in my F150 always registers half way into the cross hatch area after adding the required 6 qts. of oil. This is my 3rd 4.2 V6 F150. I have read that some owners don't believe FORD about this and add an extra 1/2 qt. anyway. SMH!
Maybe for you, when I put in as many qts that the manual says I am at the full line. So halfway in the in the marks I add.
Even though you KNOW you've added the correct amount of oil, you still add more oil? SMH!
When I change it, it's at the full line later on down the oci if it's halfway down I add. When I change its always on the full line. I don't add at the beginning of the oci to make it to the full line. There's a difference, I was referring to the op. SMH!
Originally Posted By: ChevyBadger
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
The 4.2 V6 in my F150 always registers half way into the cross hatch area after adding the required 6 qts. of oil. This is my 3rd 4.2 V6 F150. I have read that some owners don't believe FORD about this and add an extra 1/2 qt. anyway. SMH!
Maybe for you, when I put in as many qts that the manual says I am at the full line. So halfway in the in the marks I add.
Even though you KNOW you've added the correct amount of oil, you still add more oil? SMH!
When I change it, it's at the full line later on down the oci if it's halfway down I add. When I change its always on the full line. I don't add at the beginning of the oci to make it to the full line. There's a difference, I was referring to the op. SMH!
Last edited by a moderator:
Originally Posted By: ChevyBadger
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ChevyBadger
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
The 4.2 V6 in my F150 always registers half way into the cross hatch area after adding the required 6 qts. of oil. This is my 3rd 4.2 V6 F150. I have read that some owners don't believe FORD about this and add an extra 1/2 qt. anyway. SMH!
Maybe for you, when I put in as many qts that the manual says I am at the full line. So halfway in the in the marks I add.
Even though you KNOW you've added the correct amount of oil, you still add more oil? SMH!
When I change it, it's at the full line later on down the oci if it's halfway down I add. When I change its always on the full line. I don't add at the beginning of the oci to make it to the full line. There's a difference, I was referring to the op. SMH!
Sorry CB, I admit when I'm wrong and I misunderstood you! So, can we shake our heads together?
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ChevyBadger
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
The 4.2 V6 in my F150 always registers half way into the cross hatch area after adding the required 6 qts. of oil. This is my 3rd 4.2 V6 F150. I have read that some owners don't believe FORD about this and add an extra 1/2 qt. anyway. SMH!
Maybe for you, when I put in as many qts that the manual says I am at the full line. So halfway in the in the marks I add.
Even though you KNOW you've added the correct amount of oil, you still add more oil? SMH!
When I change it, it's at the full line later on down the oci if it's halfway down I add. When I change its always on the full line. I don't add at the beginning of the oci to make it to the full line. There's a difference, I was referring to the op. SMH!
Sorry CB, I admit when I'm wrong and I misunderstood you! So, can we shake our heads together?
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Interesting thread...
I wouldn't wait to top up...I check it every few weeks and if it's low I just add.
I do find that a lot of people never check their oil, just last week a lady called me all upset and told me her oil light was flashing on her Honda Odyssey. She said she just had the oil changed two weeks ago. I thought it had been longer than that so I checked and sure enough her last oil change was in September. Her oil level - whatever it actually was - was not registering on the dipstick. And her check engine light was also on - Honda throws a light when you get that low. Obvious her and her husband never check their oil. This type of stuff happens all the time.
I ran into another guy who owns a Ford Edge and he does a 700 mile a week commute (bare minimum). He too doesn't ever check his oil level. He went 7,000 miles on conventional last time and the oil wasn't registering on the dipstick when he came in. I said to him, hey you need to check your oil and switch to synthetic, he said he was using synthetic...the guy didn't even realize he wasn't.
I wouldn't wait to top up...I check it every few weeks and if it's low I just add.
I do find that a lot of people never check their oil, just last week a lady called me all upset and told me her oil light was flashing on her Honda Odyssey. She said she just had the oil changed two weeks ago. I thought it had been longer than that so I checked and sure enough her last oil change was in September. Her oil level - whatever it actually was - was not registering on the dipstick. And her check engine light was also on - Honda throws a light when you get that low. Obvious her and her husband never check their oil. This type of stuff happens all the time.
I ran into another guy who owns a Ford Edge and he does a 700 mile a week commute (bare minimum). He too doesn't ever check his oil level. He went 7,000 miles on conventional last time and the oil wasn't registering on the dipstick when he came in. I said to him, hey you need to check your oil and switch to synthetic, he said he was using synthetic...the guy didn't even realize he wasn't.
I guess you have to get to know your engine. I've never really had a burner so don't check very often except in the initial "getting to know phase" but my sons have had several shockers that needed topping up regularly. Those are the cars to keep an eye on. They are relatively new and premium makes too like BMW and VW.
1. Plenty of oil splashing around inside of the engine even without crankshaft contact to the oil in the sump. How else do you suppose oil gets to the cylinder bores? Too high an oil level may result in excessive amounts of oil reaching the bores and overwhelming the oil control rings. That state of affairs may be mitigated at some less than full level. Some engines will blow oil when filled completely. Certain light aircraft are notorious for coating the belly with that last quart of oil even though the engine is filled to proper capacity.
2. Some dipsticks are very hard to get a consistent reading with. Many Subarus are known for this, as an example. Also, the temperature at which oil level should be checked will be specified for the engine with some OMs recommending doing so five minutes after shutdown. Checking the oil cold is easier but may lead to the false impression that oil level is low. Also, you cannot assume that halfway between the upper and lower indications on the dipstick is equal to half a quart.
3. This is doubtful whether a full quart is added or merely a little dab, especially if the same oil is used as topoff as what was originally poured in after the last drain. The oil in the sump already has plenty of detergency remaining. If it didn't, it wouldn't be suitable for continued service.
2. Some dipsticks are very hard to get a consistent reading with. Many Subarus are known for this, as an example. Also, the temperature at which oil level should be checked will be specified for the engine with some OMs recommending doing so five minutes after shutdown. Checking the oil cold is easier but may lead to the false impression that oil level is low. Also, you cannot assume that halfway between the upper and lower indications on the dipstick is equal to half a quart.
3. This is doubtful whether a full quart is added or merely a little dab, especially if the same oil is used as topoff as what was originally poured in after the last drain. The oil in the sump already has plenty of detergency remaining. If it didn't, it wouldn't be suitable for continued service.
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