How Does Toyota Do It?

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by lovcom
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by lovcom




Yea, its called the Real World. Come join us...

I did, I own Toyota. It is absolute POS.

So if a car gets routinely 60+ MPG city, is the most dependable car in history, and has a better ride than most conventional cars in its size, has blind spot indicator, adaptive cruise, parallel parks its self, its a POS? I think you are the POS. You must be...you drive MOPAR products...the LEAST dependable cars sold in America (after the Mini Cooper).

The most dependable car in history is VW Golf MKII 1.6d. You could run it on power station cooling oil, mix of oil and slivovitz, all the while it was used as military transport. Toyota Prius would die 10ft outside of regular road where MKII 1.6D was going.
I am kind of seeing common thread among these Toyota fan boys here.

 

[wings&wheels]

Funny, I fielded the "what car should I get my son for college.." question recently. I get that a lot being the antique car guy; some non-enthusiasts seem to think a garage full of weird cars makes me, a finance guy, an expert on all things mechanical

. My answer to most folks is "Toyota/Lexus or Honda/Acura". Why? Because in my experience, 1) overall they produce the easiest to own vehicles available and 2) if someone hasn't made up their own mind, they are not 'car people' and are looking for an appliance. Odds wise, you probably wont go wrong...

Cant see too many folks arguing that Toyota doesn't make a great car, including the Prius, but with few exceptions, this lineup is bland, and intentionally so. They know their market. Saying that a Prius, the class leader for what it is, is "...like...sports cars" is a bit of a stretch though. I've driven them, they are numb....

 

[wag123]

Don't pay any attention to edy. He admittedly owns a Yugo and claims that Yugo quality is on-par with Toyota quality. After making that statement, IMO nothing he says is credible.
For those of you too young to remember who Yugo was, Yugos were sold in the US from 1985 to 1992 and they were voted the "Worst Car of the Millennium", Consumer Reports slammed the car as a "barely assembled bag of nuts and bolts", and Eric Peters said that the Yugo was "less reliable than the exchange rate of an African 'people's republic' or a Halliburton financial disclosure", that it "taught folks the hard way about getting what you pay for" and that "The Yugo will likely hold in perpetual ignominy the title of Worst Car Ever Sold to the American Public". They had to stop selling them in the US because the EPA determined that none of the cars they ever sold here would pass federal emissions standards. They were miserable cars!
I personally believe that edy is a corporate plant working for a competitor (or a competitor's supplier, advertising company, public relations firm, etc) trolling the boards denigrating Toyota products. If you don't think that this sort of thing is commonplace today, think again. It is going on all over the Internet... Facebook, Amazon, BITOG (and every other forum), everywhere! Every time you see someone making statements that go against conventional wisdom, be skepitical.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by wag123
Don't pay any attention to edy. He admittedly owns a Yugo and claims that Yugo quality is on-par with Toyota quality. Nobody in their right mind can be that irrational. After making that claim, IMO nothing he says is credible.
For those of you too young to remember who Yugo was, Yugos were sold in the US from 1985 to 1992 and they were voted the "Worst Car of the Millennium", Consumer reports slammed the car as a "barely assembled bag of nuts and bolts", and Eric Peters said that the Yugo was "less reliable than the exchange rate of an African 'people's republic' or a Halliburton financial disclosure", that it "taught folks the hard way about getting what you pay for" and that "The Yugo will likely hold in perpetual ignominy the title of Worst Car Ever Sold to the American Public". They had to stop selling them in the US because the EPA determined that none of the cars they ever sold here would pass federal emissions standards. They were miserable cars!
I personally believe that edy is a corporate plant working for a competitor (or competitor's supplier) trolling the boards denigrating Toyota products. If you don't think that this sort of thing is commonplace today, think again. It is going on all over the Internet... Facebook, Amazon, BITOG (and every other forum), everywhere!




Dittos.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted by wag123
Don't pay any attention to edy. He admittedly owns a Yugo and claims that Yugo quality is on-par with Toyota quality. After making that statement, IMO nothing he says is credible.
For those of you too young to remember who Yugo was, Yugos were sold in the US from 1985 to 1992 and they were voted the "Worst Car of the Millennium", Consumer Reports slammed the car as a "barely assembled bag of nuts and bolts", and Eric Peters said that the Yugo was "less reliable than the exchange rate of an African 'people's republic' or a Halliburton financial disclosure", that it "taught folks the hard way about getting what you pay for" and that "The Yugo will likely hold in perpetual ignominy the title of Worst Car Ever Sold to the American Public". They had to stop selling them in the US because the EPA determined that none of the cars they ever sold here would pass federal emissions standards. They were miserable cars!
I personally believe that edy is a corporate plant working for a competitor (or a competitor's supplier, advertising company, public relations firm, etc) trolling the boards denigrating Toyota products. If you don't think that this sort of thing is commonplace today, think again. It is going on all over the Internet... Facebook, Amazon, BITOG (and every other forum), everywhere! Every time you see someone making statements that go against conventional wisdom, be skepitical.

small explanation expand:
Yugo was a Fiat built in former Yugoslavia under license.

Edy's claims come mainly from leaving in Europe, where Toyota didn't sell a lot and hence parts and cars where expensive.
Also the lineup of other marques, including some not sold here in US is much more diverse, especially since fuel taxes and price of a vehicle is much more expensive than US.

Now my personal story:
I wanted a wagon/mini-minivan to replace a sedan.
I choose between Toyota Prius v (the versatile wagon) and Volkswagen Golf Sportwagen Gas. Common criteria: wagon form.
GSW win because the price was much lower, which could buy a lot of gas + some extra repair fund. Also lower mileage available used.
I will see how my bet is over time.

Te strange thing is I'm seeing less and less Prius v available used against all the TDI Jetta+Gold wagons and regular gas wagons.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by pandus13
small explanation expand:
Yugo was a Fiat built in former Yugoslavia under license.
Actually, Yugo was an obsolete 70's vintage Fiat built in former Yugoslavia under license.

Originally Posted by pandus13
I'm seeing less and less Prius v available used
There are two reasons for this...
1. Toyota didn't sell many of them new.
2. You can't pry them away from their owners.

 

[supton]

I wonder if the Golf wagon isn't just a better idea. When I had a wagon it needed to be jack of all trades, which included towing. Maybe I'm projecting here but since Prius isn't rated for towing, I don't know if I would want a wagon version. Maybe if it was the same price as sedans, since I think I can justify owning two vehicles (commuter, tow-er), but if I ever went back to a single vehicle it'd have to be better than a Prius. [In so many ways!]

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted by supton
I wonder if the Golf wagon isn't just a better idea. When I had a wagon it needed to be jack of all trades, which included towing. Maybe I'm projecting here but since Prius isn't rated for towing, I don't know if I would want a wagon version. Maybe if it was the same price as sedans, since I think I can justify owning two vehicles (commuter, tow-er), but if I ever went back to a single vehicle it'd have to be better than a Prius. [In so many ways!]

Have you checked Toyota Venza with the V6 in your area?

I would not use the Prius v/wagon for towing. But the inside space is the same as a Mazda5 with backseats down.

Also, I think some guys modified the GSW with Tiguan suspension parts for taller ride.
GSW Alltrack is 1.5" taller than regular GSW. But still expensive.

Right now the TDI's (Jetta or Golf) are really cheap, but do you want another diesel?

Quick question: do you still have the driveway clearance problem? Check the front mask clearance first....

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted by wag123
...
Originally Posted by pandus13
I'm seeing less and less Prius v available used
There are two reasons for this...
1. Toyota didn't sell many of them new.
2. You can't pry them away from their owners.


I'm seeing less and less as taxis, Which means they got over 200k-300k miles then go retired.

Also, I wonder if the 2015-up got a bit more expensive to replace a bumper which includes LED + sensors for the city parking scrapes.

I still cry over the loss of wagons in all lineups and non-existent mini-minivans/microvans in US.
Than the decisions to get rid of sedans.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by pandus13
Originally Posted by supton
I wonder if the Golf wagon isn't just a better idea. When I had a wagon it needed to be jack of all trades, which included towing. Maybe I'm projecting here but since Prius isn't rated for towing, I don't know if I would want a wagon version. Maybe if it was the same price as sedans, since I think I can justify owning two vehicles (commuter, tow-er), but if I ever went back to a single vehicle it'd have to be better than a Prius. [In so many ways!]

Have you checked Toyota Venza with the V6 in your area?

I would not use the Prius v/wagon for towing. But the inside space is the same as a Mazda5 with backseats down.

I've not. I'm finding myself a true Luddite, and it's awful I know, but at the moment I'm anti-LCD in the cockpit. And anti-alloy wheels, and against low profile tires, and a bunch of stuff that makes me I guess anti-car. Venza looks too fancy for me! I was mulling it over recently, if I downsize out of my Tundra, a Highlander seems like a good fit--but I don't want alloy rims, leather seats, sunroof, etc. I vacuum my cars but beyond that, it's an appliance. Venza and Highlander look too nice for me to ruin.

I had a "loaded" TDi wagon (a 2004 with leather, alloys, sunroof) and was sad when it rusted away. I tried for a while but time and salt caught up to it. Why pay extra if it doesn't make me feel good?

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by pandus13
Originally Posted by supton
I wonder if the Golf wagon isn't just a better idea. When I had a wagon it needed to be jack of all trades, which included towing. Maybe I'm projecting here but since Prius isn't rated for towing, I don't know if I would want a wagon version. Maybe if it was the same price as sedans, since I think I can justify owning two vehicles (commuter, tow-er), but if I ever went back to a single vehicle it'd have to be better than a Prius. [In so many ways!]

Have you checked Toyota Venza with the V6 in your area?

I would not use the Prius v/wagon for towing. But the inside space is the same as a Mazda5 with backseats down.

I've not. I'm finding myself a true Luddite, and it's awful I know, but at the moment I'm anti-LCD in the cockpit. And anti-alloy wheels, and against low profile tires, and a bunch of stuff that makes me I guess anti-car. Venza looks too fancy for me! I was mulling it over recently, if I downsize out of my Tundra, a Highlander seems like a good fit--but I don't want alloy rims, leather seats, sunroof, etc. I vacuum my cars but beyond that, it's an appliance. Venza and Highlander look too nice for me to ruin.

I had a "loaded" TDi wagon (a 2004 with leather, alloys, sunroof) and was sad when it rusted away. I tried for a while but time and salt caught up to it. Why pay extra if it doesn't make me feel good?


on cars dot com, on a 250miles radius from you, beside Kia Soul (a tall hatchback really) when you search for body-style "wagon", what results you get the most based on lower prices + lower miles?

And re: LCD, I plan to use my phone and ignore the rest. The low to the right/shine in the sun is an accident waiting to happen/driving safety hazard.

If the price is right, I don't care about color inside/outside, and inside options.

You could also change your pattern from the regular 7-10 years to a 5 years and go check southern cars? Non-flood please.

 

[wag123]

As far as I can tell, the Subaru Outback is the only non-European wagon still being sold in the US. Volkswagen has announced that it would end production of its two remaining wagons. The Outback has a VERY loyal following, I don't think that it is going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[supton]

I took a quick look, but since I'm not shopping at this time, I'm not going to analyze it very much. There's a fair number there, less Subaru than I expected.

I haven't figured out my next vehicle yet, part of me wants to get rid of my truck while it has value, part of me says to run it until it has none. Part of me says to get the V6 RAV4 I wanted in the first place, part of me says that's the dumbest idea ever.

But that's a separate thread apart from why Toyota is bad!

 

[wag123]

Like the Prius V, you can't pry Subaru Outbacks away from their owners, so pickings are slim on the used market.
You and I have many of the same ideas about what we want/need in a vehicle supton. When I got rid of my last pickup, the replacement was the Sienna that I have now, and I purchased a small trailer to do the pickup duties that the Sienna's interior space couldn't handle and haul things that I didn't want to put inside the van. It has worked out well for my purposes. Toyota doesn't offer basic Siennas to the public any longer, the last year for them was 2010.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted by wag123
Like the Prius V, you can't pry Subaru Outbacks away from their owners, so pickings are slim on the used market.
You and I have many of the same ideas about what we want/need in a vehicle supton. When I got rid of my last pickup, the replacement was the Sienna that I have now, and I purchased a small trailer to do the pickup duties that the Sienna's interior space couldn't handle and haul things that I didn't want to put inside the van. It has worked out well for my purposes. Toyota doesn't offer basic Siennas to the public any longer, the last year for them was 2010.

I wonder if the AWD Sienas would make sense for supton? (Snow, etc)

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by pandus13
Originally Posted by wag123
Like the Prius V, you can't pry Subaru Outbacks away from their owners, so pickings are slim on the used market.
You and I have many of the same ideas about what we want/need in a vehicle supton. When I got rid of my last pickup, the replacement was the Sienna that I have now, and I purchased a small trailer to do the pickup duties that the Sienna's interior space couldn't handle and haul things that I didn't want to put inside the van. It has worked out well for my purposes. Toyota doesn't offer basic Siennas to the public any longer, the last year for them was 2010.

I wonder if the AWD Sienas would make sense for supton? (Snow, etc)

Yes and no. I drove a late model FWD and didn't like it. Maybe a prior gen would be smaller and "feel better".

I also (finally!) have a garage, albeit a small one, and a large minivan would not let me work on it indoors. Also, while I like the concept of a minivan my kids just crossed into their teen years, and the oldest will be driving soon. Moving stuff to college, yeah a van will be good. But we've managed without one this long, and in a few short years we'll need one even less. If someone gave me one, I'd be hard pressed to say no. But to pay money for one? I just don't think it'd get enough usage to justify it (which is why I've thought about getting rid of my truck, I just don't use it like I thought I would--but OTOH it's paid off so it's only costing me depreciation, but on yet another hand, that would be the same dollar loss on anything else too).

AWD though I can justify I think, if I have three vehicles it's hard to say no to one of them being expected to be one.

 

[wag123]

Minivans are not for everyone. My wife and I have owned minivans since the 1980s, and I owned a couple of different vans before that. My kids are grown and long gone, but a van works for me in so many different ways that I can't see being without one. I use it for traveling, hauling, hunting, fishing, camping, and everyday use. The Sienna pulls my boat and trailer just fine. I like the chair-like seating position, it is very comfortable for me. It has been totally reliable, it is reasonably economical for it's size/utility, and the cost-of-ownership has been very low. On top of everything else, I can pile 7 people in it when I need to, which happens more often then I thought it would now that I have grand children.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by pandus13
Originally Posted by wag123
Like the Prius V, you can't pry Subaru Outbacks away from their owners, so pickings are slim on the used market.
You and I have many of the same ideas about what we want/need in a vehicle supton. When I got rid of my last pickup, the replacement was the Sienna that I have now, and I purchased a small trailer to do the pickup duties that the Sienna's interior space couldn't handle and haul things that I didn't want to put inside the van. It has worked out well for my purposes. Toyota doesn't offer basic Siennas to the public any longer, the last year for them was 2010.

I wonder if the AWD Sienas would make sense for supton? (Snow, etc)

Yes and no. I drove a late model FWD and didn't like it. Maybe a prior gen would be smaller and "feel better".

I also (finally!) have a garage, albeit a small one, and a large minivan would not let me work on it indoors. Also, while I like the concept of a minivan my kids just crossed into their teen years, and the oldest will be driving soon. Moving stuff to college, yeah a van will be good. But we've managed without one this long, and in a few short years we'll need one even less. If someone gave me one, I'd be hard pressed to say no. But to pay money for one? I just don't think it'd get enough usage to justify it (which is why I've thought about getting rid of my truck, I just don't use it like I thought I would--but OTOH it's paid off so it's only costing me depreciation, but on yet another hand, that would be the same dollar loss on anything else too).

AWD though I can justify I think, if I have three vehicles it's hard to say no to one of them being expected to be one.

I think AWD brings added usability to Sienna. I have a lot of gripe with this van (quality of assembly for example) and some not anticipated issues like the fact that absolutely no feedback from steering wheel would be a problem (I anticipated no feedback and knew it that there is no any, not that it would be a problem) when I turn back to see what 3 year old did now, I have no clue where vehicle is going, and its not like Sienna is tracking road good.
However, I would still get it today if I had to buy another family vehicle. It is practicality that minivans are absolute champions in. There is no way any SUV can match that. Add AWD to it (and AWD in Sienna is really nothing special, but does its job) and you have vehicle usable 365 days, plus it mitigates to large extent torque steer although there is some still present. I put always snow tires on my cars, and there is no snow that will keep me at home unless I physically cannot go through it. Only thing what I did is to avoid ones with 8 speed transmission and AWD. I found older engine actually more usable in lower rpm regime than new one (and all shortcomings of naturally aspirated engines with torque so high in rpm come to light here at this altitude), regardless that new one has more hp, but torque is even higher than in 2GR-FE. The 6 speed in ones until 2016 is smooth, although really, really slow when downshifting manually, but at least one can downshift unlike in Honda Odyssey.
However, if you think you cannot use space in minivan, or do not need it, do not get it.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by supton
I wonder if the Golf wagon isn't just a better idea. When I had a wagon it needed to be jack of all trades, which included towing. Maybe I'm projecting here but since Prius isn't rated for towing, I don't know if I would want a wagon version. Maybe if it was the same price as sedans, since I think I can justify owning two vehicles (commuter, tow-er), but if I ever went back to a single vehicle it'd have to be better than a Prius. [In so many ways!]

Depends what you want to tow? My friend at work went from Prius to VW SW TDi. He put some 100k since 2015 and except that thing with dieselgate, he had only failed temperature sensor on AC like 10 days after purchasing vehicle. Stick shift, and he tow's 1,700lbs teardrop trailer between Colorado Springs and Winter Park and than when he does road trips across the US, which is twice a year.
However, if you plan to tow something heavier, Golf is OK if equipped with Aisin automatic. Stick or DSG will not cut it for any serious towing.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by wag123
Don't pay any attention to edy. He admittedly owns a Yugo and claims that Yugo quality is on-par with Toyota quality. After making that statement, IMO nothing he says is credible.
For those of you too young to remember who Yugo was, Yugos were sold in the US from 1985 to 1992 and they were voted the "Worst Car of the Millennium", Consumer Reports slammed the car as a "barely assembled bag of nuts and bolts", and Eric Peters said that the Yugo was "less reliable than the exchange rate of an African 'people's republic' or a Halliburton financial disclosure", that it "taught folks the hard way about getting what you pay for" and that "The Yugo will likely hold in perpetual ignominy the title of Worst Car Ever Sold to the American Public". They had to stop selling them in the US because the EPA determined that none of the cars they ever sold here would pass federal emissions standards. They were miserable cars!
I personally believe that edy is a corporate plant working for a competitor (or a competitor's supplier, advertising company, public relations firm, etc) trolling the boards denigrating Toyota products. If you don't think that this sort of thing is commonplace today, think again. It is going on all over the Internet... Facebook, Amazon, BITOG (and every other forum), everywhere! Every time you see someone making statements that go against conventional wisdom, be skepitical.

Still, quality of assembly in Toyota is on par with Yugo. At least Yugo had bolted mirrors properly, unlike Toyota.