How accurate are KBB Values

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted by 69GTX

KBB has some specific areas where they price cars WAY under the wholesale market. In particular most well kept, well maintained used cars with low miles that are more than around 7-10 yrs old. Have a cream puff one owner 2008 Crown Vic with 20K-45K miles? You can be sure KBB under-prices this car by a considerable amount. And dealers just love to get cars like this on trade in for "book" value. My 1999 Camaro SS 6 speed with 19K miles has a KBB value of around $8500 last I checked a year ago. Complete rubbish. They typically change hands between collectors in the $11K-$12K range. KBB doesn't even give a premium for the value of a 6 speed over an automatic (approx $1K on this car). Most any performance car in the 1993-2008 period with considerably lower miles will tend to be priced low on KBB. They just don't give the proper premium to low miles. They do however price cars with 100K-150K miles fairly accurately.

Not many people want crown Vics, contrary to whats on here. They just don't do anything well compared to other options. The police market keeps them cheap too. I agree on collector cars and collector premiums. It seems like the algorithms are pretty generic. That said, with so many cars and sub models over so many years, it's hard not to. One would think better search algorithms for finished sales in public record would be used...

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Bull - O -Knee ! Mercury Grand Marquis - One of the most sorted, refined cars I've driven. Testamint to continuous improvent over a decade. Absolute pleasure. The other , a FWD, was the Buick LeSabre with the 3800. An that was just out of the Rental fleet And I've Owned Porsche and Lincoln and Buick and Audi and VW and Cadillac and SS 396 Chevelle and 428 CJ Torino, and 66 ChevyII "Nova" SS. Overall Best Driven was a 1973 Lincoln Town Coupe 460. Sports cars? I would tie the M roadster with the Porsche 944.

 

[Kira]

During a stint working at a dealership and at any other time thereafter, all I ever saw used was the NADA book. "Kelley Blue Book" is one of those terms which is fun to say. Hear it used and you can hear a kind of finality or confidence in the average Joe's voice. Remember, these are the same people who can't relate voltage/amperage and resistance, mistakenly swap words like Catholic and Christian, selectively can't fathom the concept of recycling, clog a single lane detour by stopping to ask directions etc. Many people are jerks and use any excuse to avoid using their brains so they can open their mouths. "Well, Kelley Blue Book says...."

 

[TiredTrucker]

Several years ago, I got a used Jeep Cherokee 4.0 from a local dealer. They quoted a price that matched NADA "excellent condition". It did seem in very good shape. But the Excellent rating is also based on maintenance history per NADA. I then asked to see the maintenance records of the vehicle. Of course, they didn't have those. So I showed them that the excellent value is not supported without maintenance records. They could not argue the point so had to immediately drop the price to "good" category. I then argued that down some more and got the price between "good" retail and trade in. Unless documented maintenance history can be provided, there is no vehicle that meets the "excellent condition" category price in NADA.

 

[Win]

My impression of KBB from my experience around and briefly owning auto auctions, and a used car lot, is that KBB over valued dealer stock and under valued private party. Everyone used NADA dealer guides, once in a while, the Black Book. The max true value of a used car was the NADA loan value. If a sucker would pay more than that, then great. It's been over fifteen years since I had anything to do with used cars, so all this could be out of date. And, cars are a commodity item to everybody but the guy who owns it - doesn't matter what kind of car it is. And they are all average condition. I doubt that's out of date. Anything that gives you a different price for a dealer car and a private car is a joke. It's the same car.

 

[gman2304]

I've sold a few cars on CL and have always used KBB for retail values because KBB is almost always several hundred dollars higher than NADA. I print out the KBB info and show it to the potential buyer, then negotiate from there. The buyers have never complained about values because it is after all from KBB and they're holding the proof in their hand!

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by JHZR2

Originally Posted by 69GTX

KBB has some specific areas where they price cars WAY under the wholesale market. In particular most well kept, well maintained used cars with low miles that are more than around 7-10 yrs old. Have a cream puff one owner 2008 Crown Vic with 20K-45K miles? You can be sure KBB under-prices this car by a considerable amount. And dealers just love to get cars like this on trade in for "book" value. My 1999 Camaro SS 6 speed with 19K miles has a KBB value of around $8500 last I checked a year ago. Complete rubbish. They typically change hands between collectors in the $11K-$12K range. KBB doesn't even give a premium for the value of a 6 speed over an automatic (approx $1K on this car). Most any performance car in the 1993-2008 period with considerably lower miles will tend to be priced low on KBB. They just don't give the proper premium to low miles. They do however price cars with 100K-150K miles fairly accurately.

Not many people want crown Vics, contrary to whats on here. They just don't do anything well compared to other options. The police market keeps them cheap too. I agree on collector cars and collector premiums. It seems like the algorithms are pretty generic. That said, with so many cars and sub models over so many years, it's hard not to. One would think better search algorithms for finished sales in public record would be used...

Agree. People are not waiting in line to buy Crown Vics-just on here.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Buying a car that isn't super special? Just a commodity item like a Ford Fusion or a Toyota Camry? $1500 over wholesale is where you want to be. Don't even CONSIDER full retail value. That's for suckers. Then sometimes you just have to hit the joint on the right day to get the nice price. Trading a commodity car? if you get above GALVES auction Black Book you are lucky. That is many times below NADA?KBB Wholesale. if you got something HOT they can flip in a week for 2-3K margin, you will do better.

 

[rubberchicken]

Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite

Bull - O -Knee ! Mercury Grand Marquis - One of the most sorted, refined cars I've driven. Testamint to continuous improvent over a decade. Absolute pleasure. The other , a FWD, was the Buick LeSabre with the 3800. An that was just out of the Rental fleet And I've Owned Porsche and Lincoln and Buick and Audi and VW and Cadillac and SS 396 Chevelle and 428 CJ Torino, and 66 ChevyII "Nova" SS. Overall Best Driven was a 1973 Lincoln Town Coupe 460. Sports cars? I would tie the M roadster with the Porsche 944.

The 1960's called- they want you back.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted by rubberchicken

Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite

Bull - O -Knee ! Mercury Grand Marquis - One of the most sorted, refined cars I've driven. Testamint to continuous improvent over a decade. Absolute pleasure. The other , a FWD, was the Buick LeSabre with the 3800. An that was just out of the Rental fleet And I've Owned Porsche and Lincoln and Buick and Audi and VW and Cadillac and SS 396 Chevelle and 428 CJ Torino, and 66 ChevyII "Nova" SS. Overall Best Driven was a 1973 Lincoln Town Coupe 460. Sports cars? I would tie the M roadster with the Porsche 944.

The 1960's called- they want you back.

You can take most all mac strut FWD and drive em all off a cliff - as far as good engineering and steering response goes many steps backwards to CHEAP and easy manufacturing.. I've owned over 70 cars of all kinds, and I know what a good one is. - for me.

 

[MNgopher]

Historically, I've found using Edmunds has worked well for private party sales and buying. Yes, it tends to be a lot lower than KBB, but I've also found it to more closely match reality out there in this market. NADA also works, but working between multiple sources tends to work best...

 

[kkreit01]

Typically, KBB is a little too generous. I did get KBB trade-in on my last purchase. I usually check KBB, Edmunds, and NADA. You can then get a decent average.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted by kkreit01

.. I usually check KBB, Edmunds, and NADA. You can then get a decent average.

That's what I've always done too. Check every one you can reference and you'll at least have some idea. Doesn't matter if it's a hot seller or not, you're still going to get a reasonable reference point. Several times I've had dealers simply input my trade-in's data into KBB, print it out and and hand me the KBB trade-in value, but this is going back some years. Same number I got online. The big mega dealer chain in my area has their own trade-in valuation site/link that supposedly references the specific vehicle in inventory, what the demand is, what they sold for, etc. It comes out basically the same as NADA, KBB, etc. Everybody knows a trade-in allowance is going to be less than what you can get selling yourself. If the cost is too high, you don't do the deal.

 

[Rmay635703]

Pricing depends on your area In my area if it's not 4wd and truck expect $1500 or less, no exceptions Reason is that is all they have to spend, most around here have to bring the car to Carmax, auction or the wrecker since they pay more Trade in is always higher than private party but considering they just jack up the price it's meaningless