KBB Values
Good condition- $12700
Fair condition- $11700
maintenance is top notch but body had it's fair share of dents and scratches, so I'd say it's between fair and good.
ended up selling for $10500.
How realistic are KBB numbers? Are you supposed to use these numbers as a ballpark or is there a certain margin built into it? How often do sellers actually get book value on a sale? I've only ever sold older, higher mileage cars where KBB values didn't really make sense(like who's gonna pay $2500 for a 250k mile car). Those I just sold for best offers. But what about cars that are late model, low mileage, still under warranty?
How accurate are KBB Values
- Thread starter avacado11
- Start date
KBB is owned by J.D. Power. The prices reflected in KBB are by the same P. R. firm that is on the payroll of the auto manufacturers. That should tell you all you need to know.
As a trade in - almost never - It's actually laughable.
"Right now it just so happens that the market is soft for 1970 hemi cuda 4 speed convertibles "
Doesn't matter what the trade in is they'll pretend the market for it doesn't exist.
Private sale - better chance.
Not accurate at all
Edmunds is more realistic 
Originally Posted by UncleDave
As a trade in - almost never - It's actually laughable.
"Right now it just so happens that the market is soft for 1970 hemi cuda 4 speed convertibles "
Doesn't matter what the trade in is they'll pretend the market for it doesn't exist.
Private sale - better chance.
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When I checked more than a decade ago, Edmonds tracked sales prices and Kelly tracked asking prices. Kelly would print pseudo Moroney stickers for the doors and like sticker prices at a dealer give you something for the window that you could mark down. Do you pay sticker price at the dealer? Kelly will give you the same experience.
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I believe NADA is based on actual dealer sales. Also used by insurance companies to determine book value when a vehicle is totaled. Dealers always advertise cars that are below KBB but they don't say it's below NADA. Even our DMV use NADA when determining how much sales tax you should pay on a used car when it's a private sale.
Originally Posted by csandste
When I checked more than a decade ago, Edmonds tracked sales prices and Kelly tracked asking prices. Kelly would print pseudo Moroney stickers for the doors and like sticker prices at a dealer give you something for the window that you could mark down. Do you pay sticker price at the dealer? Kelly will give you the same experience.
Ive had many dealers that refused Edmunds offers. If anything Edmunds seemed a bit low. But buy using Edmunds,sell using Kelly.
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Whenever you're selling your car you quote the highest value, be it from KBB, NADA, Edmonds. Whenever you're buying a car, you show the seller a copy of the lowest value, be it from KBB, NADA, Edmonds. And for some low volume high demand cars, the difference between private party and dealer values may be clear cut in the books, but get pretty blurred in reality. A private seller with a Demon for example can get pretty much the same for the car as a dealer would.
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
Not accurate at all
Edmunds is more realistic
Originally Posted by avacado11
Originally Posted by csandste
When I checked more than a decade ago, Edmonds tracked sales prices and Kelly tracked asking prices. Kelly would print pseudo Moroney stickers for the doors and like sticker prices at a dealer give you something for the window that you could mark down. Do you pay sticker price at the dealer? Kelly will give you the same experience.
My opinion only-
KBB - skews in favor of dealers- low trade in, high selling price.
NADA- based on selling data
Edmunds- skews in favor of consumers- higher trade in price, lower selling price compared to KBB
Insurance companies and lenders generally use NADA, and most just ignore KBB.
KBB is trash. I've had salesmen try to use it to "prime" me for a low trade number. Edmunds is the same but different. Instead of you laughing at the dealer's low number, the dealer laughs at your high number.
Dealers use NADA. More specifically, they glance at the NADA values while checking current auction prices and using their considerable knowledge of how their prior purchases went.
If the car you're trying to trade is just like one that they took a bath on or sent to auction after it sat for 30 days and multiple price drops... You're getting a lower number than any guide will say.
Likewise, they know EXACTLY what they have to sell a car for, having sold thousands prior to you. If you demand a price that is too low FOR THEM, why should they budge? Someone new will be in tomorrow.
IMO, the NADA is the gospel. And the reason it was originally called(years ago) the "Blue Book"[slang] is because it's well, BLUE!
And IMO, Kelley(not Kelly) stole the name, "Blue Book" as it was only a nickname for the NADA given by the public and not what it was actually called by the National Automobile Dealers Association.
Those dents/scratches will destroy value as plainly visible. No one sees maintenance unfortunately.
$10.5 or more is tough spot for private sale unless higher demand vehicle.
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I've philosophized about this before but it bears repeating:
Someone who's dad bought them a used Pontiac to get them through school hates Pontiacs, hates their Sunfire in particular, and wants it gone. It runs fine, but needs a muffler, but every time they go to the mechanic they get soaked for $800 and they don't even know where it goes. Great condition is $2200, Poor $1300, they price the car for $1000 just to see it gone.
Then all Sunfires are selling for $1000, this feeds back to the guide books, and the bottom drops out of their value.
Meanwhile a Corolla is worth $2200, because of course it's in great condition-- it's a Toyota-- and the owner holds it in high esteem. The paint's still perfect! That muffler is $28 on Amazon, so knock $28 off the price, and you're selling the car for $2150. (Never minding that the car needs a cat-back system, the muffler's just the most obvious issue.) But-- wait-- they just "invested" $800 at the mechanic, so now the car's $2950. 
If enough people think like this herd, you get price disparities from what something "should" be.
OTOH there are some cars that are absolute trash that I'd stay away from if they were free. Other people see a low mileage-- lower than what they have-- and think that's the end-all, be-all. Good luck to 'em!
If enough people think like this herd, you get price disparities from what something "should" be.
OTOH there are some cars that are absolute trash that I'd stay away from if they were free. Other people see a low mileage-- lower than what they have-- and think that's the end-all, be-all. Good luck to 'em!When it comes to determining the wholesale market value of a used vehicle, the "Black Book" is the most accurate. After the on-line auction reports (which is what most dealers are using now days), it is the published guide that most dealers use the most often.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted by gman2304
Originally Posted by UncleDave
As a trade in - almost never - It's actually laughable.
"Right now it just so happens that the market is soft for 1970 hemi cuda 4 speed convertibles "
Doesn't matter what the trade in is they'll pretend the market for it doesn't exist.
Private sale - better chance.
KBB has some specific areas where they price cars WAY under the wholesale market. In particular most well kept, well maintained used cars with low miles that are more than around 7-10 yrs old.
Have a cream puff one owner 2008 Crown Vic with 20K-45K miles? You can be sure KBB under-prices this car by a considerable amount. And dealers just love to get cars like this on trade in for "book" value.
My 1999 Camaro SS 6 speed with 19K miles has a KBB value of around $8500 last I checked a year ago. Complete rubbish. They typically change hands between collectors in the $11K-$12K range. KBB doesn't even give a premium for the value of a 6 speed over an automatic (approx $1K on this car). Most any performance car in the 1993-2008 period with considerably lower miles will tend to be priced low on KBB. They just don't give the proper premium to low miles. They do however price cars with 100K-150K miles fairly accurately.
