Honda Ultimate 0w-20 vs?

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You would be paying X2 or X3 for Mobil 1 X2 0W-20 with no scientifically measurable performance difference—X2 indeed.

Moreover, I don't think they have upgraded Mobil 1 X2 0W-20 to API SP yet; so, it does not offer LSPI and timing-chain-wear protection.
API SP test oil on an engine that doesn’t have timing chain issues. ACEA C5 is a stain in grade that Carries manufacturer spec such as MB 229.71, VW 508/509 Porsche C30, etc. I’d be more worried about fuel dilution than timing chain wear and LSPI which Honda engines don’t have anyway. The X2 has a higher HTHS than the Toyota 0w20. Everywhere outside of USA uses ACEA C3 oil from 0w30 to 15w40. Honda recommends 0w20 strictly for fuel efficiency. I wouldn’t even be using a 0w20 in any engine anyway.
 
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API SP test oil on an engine that doesn’t have timing chain issues. ACEA C5 is a stain in grade that Carries manufacturer spec such as MB 229.71, VW 508/509 Porsche C30, etc. I’d be more worried about fuel dilution than timing chain wear and LSPI which Honda engines don’t have anyway. The X2 has a higher HTHS than the Toyota 0w20. Everywhere outside of USA uses ACEA C3 oil from 0w30 to 15w40. Honda recommends 0w20 strictly for fuel efficiency. I wouldn’t even be using a 0w20 in any engine anyway.
No, API SP does have both LSPI and timing-chain-wear tests.


ACEA C5 is an obsolete spec that has been replaced by ACEA C6. ACEA C6 has both LSPI and timing-chain-wear tests.

So, yes, Mobil 1 ESP X2 0W-20's current SN formulation is obsolete.

Mobil 1 ESP X2 0W-20 has HTHS = 2.6 cP, which is the SAE J300 minimum.
 
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No, API SP does have both LSPI and timing-chain-wear tests.


ACEA C5 is an obsolete spec that has been replaced by ACEA C6. ACEA C6 has both LSPI and timing-chain-wear tests.

So, yes, Mobil 1 ESP X2 0W-20's current SN formulation is obsolete.

Mobil 1 ESP X2 0W-20 has HTHS = 2.6 cP, which is the SAE J300 minimum.
It’s the soot from the direct injection that is suspended in the oil that is shown to cause the chain wear. These direct injected engines produce the same amount of soot as a diesel if not more. API SP addresses this. But they are also testing chain wear on engines that do not have chain wear issues. Also ACEA C5 is not obsolete. ACEA doesn’t address LSPI or timing chain wear, that’s up to the manufacturer spec for testing. I don’t care about timing chain wear or LSPI. I worry about fuel dilution so I stick with a stay in grade oil such as ACEA C3 MOBIL 1 ESP 0w30 for fuel dilution. I don’t buy oil based on API.
 
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One should not forget that an Acea specification is lengthwise superior to an API. The wear test limits for the timing chain are increased compared to the previous API SN, but the requirements for a current ACEA are many times higher than the API sets. If you are looking for protection against LSPI, you can also orient yourself on the new ACEA A7.
 
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One should not forget that an Acea specification is lengthwise superior to an API. The wear test limits for the timing chain are increased compared to the previous API SN, but the requirements for a current ACEA are many times higher than the API sets. If you are looking for protection against LSPI, you can also orient yourself on the new ACEA A7.
MB 229.52 covers LSPI. This is ACEA C3 oil. I’m not worried about LSPI nor timing chain wear. Honda or Toyota engines do not have an LSPI issue, nor a timing chain issue. But what honda 1.5t engine does have is fuel dilution. All this was just discussed in the following thread!

 
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One should not forget that an Acea specification is lengthwise superior to an API. The wear test limits for the timing chain are increased compared to the previous API SN, but the requirements for a current ACEA are many times higher than the API sets. If you are looking for protection against LSPI, you can also orient yourself on the new ACEA A7.
Not needed. MB has addressed this already back in 2016.
 
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Have found the M1 0W-30 AFE satisfactory for 3-3500mi intervals using the Honda filters, engine is quiet and oil doesn't rise significantly on the stick. Honda dealer Technician/Service Advisor/Service Manager all indicated that either the 0W-30 AFE or 5W-30 EP (which has Honda Approvals) is fully acceptable for warranty requirements. As the 0W-30 is sometimes difficult to source locally, I may try the M1 5W-30 EP the next time as it's easier to find. At local temperatures here In South Central Pennsylvania seldom get below 0f, can't see where a 0W or 5W would make much, if any, difference in cold-start flow performance. Interesting that the 0W-30 has a higher base viscosity than the 5W-30. Pretty much resigned to 3-3500mi OCI's with this engine if I want to keep it for several years. Had the Differential changed at 15k per Honda and just had a "spill & fill" done at 30k on the CVT, both using Honda fluids. The REAL beneficiary of my care and pro-active servicing will be the NEXT owner of this car.
 
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No, API SP does have both LSPI and timing-chain-wear tests.


ACEA C5 is an obsolete spec that has been replaced by ACEA C6. ACEA C6 has both LSPI and timing-chain-wear tests.

So, yes, Mobil 1 ESP X2 0W-20's current SN formulation is obsolete.

Mobil 1 ESP X2 0W-20 has HTHS = 2.6 cP, which is the SAE J300 minimum.
Castrol Edge still has ACEA C5.
 
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Castrol Edge still has ACEA C5.
The old Castrol Edge Extended Performance (EP) C5/MB 229.71 0W-20 SP gold bottle (?) actually also met ACEA C6 without reformulation; so, you were good from the beginning!


I put a question mark above because it is not clear in the PDSs if Castrol is actually referring to the EP gold bottle. I am guessing that this is the case because of the Euro-OEM approvals. If that's really the case, you certainly can't go wrong with the Castrol Edge EP 0W-20 SP gold bottle, as it meets the strictest 0W-20 specifications and claims a 20,000-mile OCI.

In addition to providing LSPI and timing-chain protection, ACEA C6 reduces the valvetrain wear by 18% with respect to C5, improves the fuel economy, and reduces the engine and turbocharger deposits.

The new ACEA A7/B7 and ACEA C6 categories are the most advanced ACEA categories and provide the least wear and cleanest engines—more so than any other ACEA category.

Oronite OLOA 54720 additive package meets BMW LL17FE+, MB229.71, Volvo RBS0-2AE 0W-20, WSS-M2C947-B1, WSS-M2C962-A1, ACEA C6, and API SP/RC (ILSAC GF-6).


The HTFS/VII table lists all the Castrol 0W-20 flavors. The flavors to avoid are Castrol Edge High-Mileage 0W-20 SP and Castrol GTX Full Synthetic 0W-20 SP.

 
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Dec 24, 2013
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Have found the M1 0W-30 AFE satisfactory for 3-3500mi intervals using the Honda filters, engine is quiet and oil doesn't rise significantly on the stick. Honda dealer Technician/Service Advisor/Service Manager all indicated that either the 0W-30 AFE or 5W-30 EP (which has Honda Approvals) is fully acceptable for warranty requirements. As the 0W-30 is sometimes difficult to source locally, I may try the M1 5W-30 EP the next time as it's easier to find. At local temperatures here In South Central Pennsylvania seldom get below 0f, can't see where a 0W or 5W would make much, if any, difference in cold-start flow performance. Interesting that the 0W-30 has a higher base viscosity than the 5W-30. Pretty much resigned to 3-3500mi OCI's with this engine if I want to keep it for several years. Had the Differential changed at 15k per Honda and just had a "spill & fill" done at 30k on the CVT, both using Honda fluids. The REAL beneficiary of my care and pro-active servicing will be the NEXT owner of this car.
Which Honda approvals? They don’t require a specific motor oil.
 
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The old Castrol Edge Extended Performance (EP) C5/MB 229.71 0W-20 SP gold bottle (?) actually also met ACEA C6 without reformulation; so, you were good from the beginning!


I put a question mark above because it is not clear in the PDSs if Castrol is actually referring to the EP gold bottle. I am guessing that this is the case because of the Euro-OEM approvals. If that's really the case, you certainly can't go wrong with the Castrol Edge EP 0W-20 SP gold bottle, as it meets the strictest 0W-20 specifications and claims a 20,000-mile OCI.

In addition to providing LSPI and timing-chain protection, ACEA C6 reduces the valvetrain wear by 18% with respect to C5, improves the fuel economy, and reduces the engine and turbocharger deposits.

The new ACEA A7/B7 and ACEA C6 categories are the most advanced ACEA categories and provide the least wear and cleanest engines—more so than any other ACEA category.

Oronite OLOA 54720 additive package meets BMW LL17FE+, MB229.71, Volvo RBS0-2AE 0W-20, WSS-M2C947-B1, WSS-M2C962-A1, ACEA C6, and API SP/RC (ILSAC GF-6).


The HTFS/VII table lists all the Castrol 0W-20 flavors. The flavors to avoid are Castrol Edge High-Mileage 0W-20 SP and Castrol GTX Full Synthetic 0W-20 SP.

The Castrol Edge C5 msds link you listed is not the Castrol Edge Extended Performance 0W20 in US.

They have not updated it since 2015. Only the Saftey Sheet was recently updated.

You must search "Castrol Edge Extended Performance 0W20".
 
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They have not updated it since 2015. Only the Saftey Sheet was recently updated.

You must search "Castrol Edge Extended Performance 0W20".
Yes, I know, and I mentioned it in my post. The PDS for neither the Edge nor the Edge EP exists. That's why I posted the PDSs for the C5 and C6 because they have the same Euro-OEM approvals as the Edge EP.
 
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