Honda Owners: Baldwin B7318 anyone?
- Thread starter Hohn
- Start date
Completely agree. Kinda sad to see a USA made filter be essentially unchanged for 40+ years. Huge advances in filtration have been made, but you'll not see them in much of the Baldwin line where paper if forever.
It was probably a leaky ADBV. A high bypass valve setting isn't going to delay oil pressure at the sensor due to a normally operating PD oil pump. With a PD oil pump, only way there would be a significant delay in oil pressure at start-up is if the filter was so restrictive that it caused the pump to go way into pressure relief, which I doubt was happening in your case.
I think that’s precisely what was happening actually, rather than leaky ADBV. This filter is mounted vertically and there’s not much “drain back” . There’s very little media in this can, it’s just basic paper and yet is 27 micron absolute.
Moreover, the delay persisted even when warm and restarting, a condition which should have essentially zero drainback.
When I swapped in the BOSS, the oil pressure delay was too low to measure, and this with a half-empty filter from installation.
I can’t rule out ADBV conclusively, but this seems more like legit media restriction.
The filter should be way less flow restrictive when the oil is hot, so I don't see how that could make the oil pump hit relief and delay the build up of oil pressure with a hot oil start-up. Could be the ADBV was so leaky that it happen quickly and therefore made it seem that way when hot too. How much time did you wait after a hot shutdown to restart the engine?I think that’s precisely what was happening actually, rather than leaky ADBV. This filter is mounted vertically and there’s not much “drain back” . There’s very little media in this can, it’s just basic paper and yet is 27 micron absolute.
Moreover, the delay persisted even when warm and restarting, a condition which should have essentially zero drainback.
When I swapped in the BOSS, the oil pressure delay was too low to measure, and this with a half-empty filter from installation.
I can’t rule out ADBV conclusively, but this seems more like legit media restriction.
<5 min. Regardless of actual cause, the 7318 causes oil pressure delay that I don’t like seeing.
Only way to know would be to try another 7318. I don't think any filter is so flow restrictive that it's going to cause any PD oil pump to hit pressure relief and cut flow way back with a hot oil start-up, especially at low start-up hot engine RPM.
Well, I have more of them. I can do an “A” to complete the ABA test perhaps in a month or so when I pull off the BOSS that’s on there’s collecting VRP residue.
If the 7318 oil delay is real, it should repeat.
Give it an ADBV "blow test".
How? Just blow in the clean side to try to induce back flow?
Late to the party - but I thought the Baldwin replacement for the 7317 size - was the B1402. The long version of that filter is the B1431. Do I have that wrong?
I was always going to try one on my Nissan, but there ridiculously expensive - for qty 1 at least.
https://ph.baldwinfilters.com/baldwin/en/product/baldwin-spin-on-lube-filters/b1431
I was always going to try one on my Nissan, but there ridiculously expensive - for qty 1 at least.
https://ph.baldwinfilters.com/baldwin/en/product/baldwin-spin-on-lube-filters/b1431
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So I gave the 7318 a try and concluded it’s too restrictive, but @ZeeOSix is thinking it might not be restriction that’s the issue. So now you’re current on the entire thread.
You are correct. But the 7318 is the same size and interface with much finer media—9 micron nominal.
So I gave the 7318 a try and concluded it’s too restrictive, but @ZeeOSix is thinking it might not be restriction that’s the issue. So now you’re current on the entire thread.
OG Ultra was said by Motorking (Fram Rep at the time) to be 80% @ 5u. I believe it based on Ascent's official ISO 4548-12 testing (thread is in this forum). Yet, it wasn't restrictive enough to cause any noticeable problems. Sure it was different media, but high efficiency doesn't automatically mean high dP vs flow.
Did you cut one of those 7318s open and measure the total media area? It would have to be ridiculously low for it to cause so much restriction that it makes a PD oil pump to hit pressure relief with hot oil and start-up idle engine RPM.
Which one is it? Is the Baldwin more restrictive and excessively blocks flow, or is the Baldwin going into bypass?
I’m willing to bet two things: one: if nothing had ever been said about the filter that biased your use, you’d never have noticed anything different on your own; and two: the “essentially instantly” and a “full second or so” won’t matter one lick to the life of your engine. There’s still oil on the surfaces and flow coming from the pump. I agree with Zee that the worst thing would be a leaky ADBV, but would like to see a cut element if you can manage to do one.
It’s not oil filters that kill J35s in any guise, not even in soccer moms with terrible maintenance habits who use modified OEM Fram Oranges for two OCIs like the manual allows for. It’s the cylinder deactivation that kills them, rear cylinders and motor mounts first. Then it’s the gunk that accumulates from plugged PCVs and oxidized oil. Can you do a stopwatch on the oil light on your ABA test?
Since the bypass on this filter is about twice as high (20psi) as most Hondas, I think it's a combination of the two. If the bypass wasn't so much higher in cracking, we'd not see the effect of excessive media restriction. And if the media wasn't so restrictive, we wouldn't have to wait for bypass to crack to see pressure.Which one is it? Is the Baldwin more restrictive and excessively blocks flow, or is the Baldwin going into bypass?
I’m willing to bet two things: one: if nothing had ever been said about the filter that biased your use, you’d never have noticed anything different on your own; and two: the “essentially instantly” and a “full second or so” won’t matter one lick to the life of your engine. There’s still oil on the surfaces and flow coming from the pump. I agree with Zee that the worst thing would be a leaky ADBV, but would like to see a cut element if you can manage to do one.
It’s not oil filters that kill J35s in any guise, not even in soccer moms with terrible maintenance habits who use modified OEM Fram Oranges for two OCIs like the manual allows for. It’s the cylinder deactivation that kills them, rear cylinders and motor mounts first. Then it’s the gunk that accumulates from plugged PCVs and oxidized oil. Can you do a stopwatch on the oil light on your ABA test?
So in my mind, it's not either/or. It's both. But for one, the other isn't capable of causing the observed/suspected delay.
Agree that filters don't kill J35s.
I was thinking I'd video record a cold start with the current BOSS, swap the filter to Baldwin, top off the oil, then record another start. Van is garaged and oil temp would be essentially constant and since the oil only has a week on it, it's fresh.
If the Baldwin causes "excess" oil pressure delay, surely that would reveal it or confirm it?
The typical oil filter is only about 1/15th the flow restriction of the oiling system. No oil filter is going to go into bypass at engine cranking speed if that's what you mean by "cranking". Maybe if the oil was thick as honey at 0 deg F.
Need to verify the ADBV isn't leaking on that Baldwin before testing it - ie, do a "blow test" at least. If the ADBV leaks it's an invalid test. The best way to do it would be to run the engine enough to get all the air out of the system, let it sit over night, then start the engine the next day. Do that with multiple filters that you know the ADBV is sealing.
it usually does when its surface-acting paper and low in media area compared to a depth-style synthetic fiber media. They are worlds apart in flow vs restriction for comparable efficiency values. Depth-acting media can effectively have a multiple of the surface area of a surface-active media like dense paper.
Watch the WCW video on this filter. He comments on how the “media looks super clean.” Why does it look so clean? It’s because the media isn’t containing the debris— it’s just blocking it.
Look what was in the bottom of my 7318 can after just 800 miles. By contrast, the M1-110 with 2500 miles of VRP (that I removed just before this was perfectly clean in the bottom shell. Why? The m1-110 media held the VRP residue in the media, as a good filter should. Clean shell, dirty media is what we want to see. The baldwin gives a clean media and a dirty shell. The media is poor and only acts essentially at the surface. It retains very poorly.
WCW cut one open so I didn’t measure when I cut mine open. I still have the filter in the garage. As you’d expect with 800 miles on it, it’s pretty clean with a couple chunks here and there of VRP residue in it.
It’s been fun to walk through the theory here, but I’m resting my case against the 7318. You can vote to acquit if you want, but there’s no budget for a retrial.
Peace.
Yes, that's not much media area surface area. But again, it doesn't automatically mean it has high dP vs flow, but you can assume it might cause it to some degree because of the low media area - depends the media of course. But does it have enough flow restriction to choke the flow so much that a PD oil pump goes into relief and cuts flow way down even with a hot oil start-up at near idle RPM. If that was the case, that filter would also be choking down the oil flow at higher RPM even with hot oil. And the oil pressure at higher RPM would be way down too compared to a freer flowing filter because the oil pump would be even deeper into pressure relief at higher RPM. Do you have a real pressure gauge, or just a oil pressure warning light?
If you can't verify if the ADBV is leaking or not causing a delay in building oil pressure, then you can't really conclude anything about if a new (not loaded by a VRP run) Baldwin filter is causing what you're seeing.
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