This story is everywhere -- even Jay Leno joked about Clarkson's article in the Telegraph.
Honda not so Insight(ful)
- Thread starter Tempest
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: Bryan K. Walton
A difference of $2,280 (and soon to be only $1,280) at the very low end and $5,020 at the very high end. I personally think that following the initial excitement of the new Honda, they are going to have drop the Insight price further to stay competitive with the Prius.
You forgot to add the classic Prius markup though. The Insight just became available so its a little soon so call it initial excitement. Much like the Fit they'll probably sell every one that they bring over so I dont think excitement doesnt have that much to do with it.
A difference of $2,280 (and soon to be only $1,280) at the very low end and $5,020 at the very high end. I personally think that following the initial excitement of the new Honda, they are going to have drop the Insight price further to stay competitive with the Prius.
You forgot to add the classic Prius markup though. The Insight just became available so its a little soon so call it initial excitement. Much like the Fit they'll probably sell every one that they bring over so I dont think excitement doesnt have that much to do with it.
That is true. Prius prices, if you could find one, were astronomical last summer. Out of two local dealers in my city, there were no 2008s and there was one used 2007 to be found. It was selling for more than the MSRP of a new, loaded model.
Originally Posted By: Dyoel182
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
On one hand I can see what you're saying, but on the other, is it really legitimate to compare the two cars on a "value" basis? Given the size difference, to me, that would be just like making a value comparison between a Camry and a Civic.
Certainly it is. Honda aimed their product to be more entry level but still give most of the hybrid benefits the Prius offers. If they were only $1000-2000 apart I would say value doesnt apply as much but we're talking closer to $10k difference.
But Honda aimed at having an entry-level, Civic-sized car. The Toyota is aimed at people who want exceptional fuel economy in a near-Camry-sized vehicle. Apples and oranges.
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
On one hand I can see what you're saying, but on the other, is it really legitimate to compare the two cars on a "value" basis? Given the size difference, to me, that would be just like making a value comparison between a Camry and a Civic.
Certainly it is. Honda aimed their product to be more entry level but still give most of the hybrid benefits the Prius offers. If they were only $1000-2000 apart I would say value doesnt apply as much but we're talking closer to $10k difference.
But Honda aimed at having an entry-level, Civic-sized car. The Toyota is aimed at people who want exceptional fuel economy in a near-Camry-sized vehicle. Apples and oranges.
Yes, IMHO, they should can the Civic Hybrid. I suppose it's cost effective to make, since it shares the Civic platform. But what good is that if no one buys them? I wonder if they are still planning a Fit hybrid? If so, I'd say they should concentrate on that as their entry car and take the Insight upmarket. Maybe make it Clarity-sized.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Because the fit gets horrid EPA mileage on paper, and the insight gets honda to where they need to be...
I didn't know 35 miles per gallon was "horrid." And where would Honda "need to be?"
Because the fit gets horrid EPA mileage on paper, and the insight gets honda to where they need to be...
I didn't know 35 miles per gallon was "horrid." And where would Honda "need to be?"
Originally Posted By: oilyriser
EPA numbers have been downgraded to reflect the additional pork behind the wheel.
Actually, they've been "downgraded" to factor-in things such as air conditioning on a hot day, speeding, driving up and down hills, etc.
However, I've usually beat the EPA averages in nearly every car I've ever owned...
EPA numbers have been downgraded to reflect the additional pork behind the wheel.
Actually, they've been "downgraded" to factor-in things such as air conditioning on a hot day, speeding, driving up and down hills, etc.
However, I've usually beat the EPA averages in nearly every car I've ever owned...
Lack of competition produced the Insight, it is overpriced and decontented. 'Just vote no purchase', stop being a victim and send a powerful message to the decision makers.
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
I think what he's trying to get at is that while the Fit is a great, sensible little subcompact, it doesn't have the cache and appeal of an entry level hybrid with 40+ mpg figures that people associate with the Prius.
I know. My point is the two cannot be compared. The Fit is about $6,000 less (last I checked), and that's for the top of the line Sport vs. the base Prius. You'd have to go a long way to make that up in gas...
I think what he's trying to get at is that while the Fit is a great, sensible little subcompact, it doesn't have the cache and appeal of an entry level hybrid with 40+ mpg figures that people associate with the Prius.
I know. My point is the two cannot be compared. The Fit is about $6,000 less (last I checked), and that's for the top of the line Sport vs. the base Prius. You'd have to go a long way to make that up in gas...
Originally Posted By: ravenchris
Lack of competition produced the Insight, it is overpriced and decontented. 'Just vote no purchase', stop being a victim and send a powerful message to the decision makers.
Um, how is an Insight "overpriced?" It's pretty close to the Prius fuel consumption-wise and is several thousand less.
I wouldn't buy one personally. But who or what would you be a "victim" of if you bought one?
Lack of competition produced the Insight, it is overpriced and decontented. 'Just vote no purchase', stop being a victim and send a powerful message to the decision makers.
Um, how is an Insight "overpriced?" It's pretty close to the Prius fuel consumption-wise and is several thousand less.
I wouldn't buy one personally. But who or what would you be a "victim" of if you bought one?
Originally Posted By: opus1
My 10-year old Malibu consistently gets 32+ on the highway, and I have one tank recorded as high as 33.6-something. And this is at speeds that average 65.
I have got 28 mpg (US) in mine averaging 80 mph with the AC on. 32 isn't hard to do on the highway at 65-70 mph and if I really focused hypermiling I could probably get close to 45.
My 10-year old Malibu consistently gets 32+ on the highway, and I have one tank recorded as high as 33.6-something. And this is at speeds that average 65.
I have got 28 mpg (US) in mine averaging 80 mph with the AC on. 32 isn't hard to do on the highway at 65-70 mph and if I really focused hypermiling I could probably get close to 45.
The first generation of Civic Hybrid may have burned some people on them too. Problems with the CVT transmission were commmon. My dad has one he bought new, and I don't think he would buy another. A Fusion Hybrid or Prius will probably replace it.
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
The first generation of Civic Hybrid may have burned some people on them too. Problems with the CVT transmission were commmon. My dad has one he bought new, and I don't think he would buy another. A Fusion Hybrid or Prius will probably replace it.
This is a major advantage of the Toyota/Lex HSD design. The "CVT" in these cars bears no resemblance to the belt/chain and cone designs that constitute almost all other CVTs. The Toyota design is an adaptation of a simple planetary gear set. It is virtually self-governing (as determined by the gear ratios), and has very few load-bearing or moving parts. I'm surprised at how little discussion there is regarding this very clever and advantageous design.
The first generation of Civic Hybrid may have burned some people on them too. Problems with the CVT transmission were commmon. My dad has one he bought new, and I don't think he would buy another. A Fusion Hybrid or Prius will probably replace it.
This is a major advantage of the Toyota/Lex HSD design. The "CVT" in these cars bears no resemblance to the belt/chain and cone designs that constitute almost all other CVTs. The Toyota design is an adaptation of a simple planetary gear set. It is virtually self-governing (as determined by the gear ratios), and has very few load-bearing or moving parts. I'm surprised at how little discussion there is regarding this very clever and advantageous design.
Hey, I just noticed something interesting. So, the new Insight is based upon the Civic??? That's both odd and ironic, if true. The Insight has a very short 100 inch wheelbase, and only 85 cubes of interior volume. The Civic hybrid has the exact same 106.3 wheelbase as the new Prius-III, 90 cubes of interior space, and scores marginally better on the EPA test than the Insight!?! Looks to me as if the Civic Hybrid is the hands-down winner in the "which Honda hybrid to buy" comparison.
Am I missing something???
Am I missing something???
- Status
