Honda not so Insight(ful)

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Ah, but we're not talking about making things last. If we're speaking of just making things last a short time, a new car comes out on top b/c (hopefully) it will last MUCH longer than 6 months.

Point is, sure, there's a place for buying a good, economical used car. I've done it four times myself. But we can't go making blanket statements that a used car is always a better deal for everyone (and vice versa).
 
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Buckets of money? Depends on what's wrong with it, and whether one is capable of doing the work themselves or needs to pay a shop to do it.


That's the point. There's always, eventually going to be something wrong. If it's going to be claimed that the ownership experience (minus the monthly payments) is near identical, then lets compare apples to apples here and include the outlay up front for anticipated wear items and/or known model-specific failures.



It just hurts more to dump 1K into a car worth as much, as opposed to the same amount on a "newer" 2006'ish car worth alot more than the repair.
 
I still love that quad 4 motor but have always hated the Beretta. My ex had an Alero with the quad 4 and I loved popping the hood to look at it.
 
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
Ah, but we're not talking about making things last. If we're speaking of just making things last a short time, a new car comes out on top b/c (hopefully) it will last MUCH longer than 6 months.


Don't forget about the depreciation of the new car. That might exceed the cost of repairs to keep an older car running.
 
Yeah, but again, I'm not talking about "keep it running" comparisions. Of course, with a band aid here and some duct tape there, you can keep that old Catalina going forever. That's the hassle part, though.
 
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Don't forget about the depreciation of the new car. That might exceed the cost of repairs to keep an older car running.


Depreciation is only a factor if you swap for a new car fairly soon. Its not like you magically lose more money after a year goes by.
 
Originally Posted By: brianl703
If you have a car that needs $300 worth of work, are you ahead (over buying a new car) if the repairs make the car last 6 more months?


$300 is not even a single monthly payment on most any new car worth buying.

As long as all the major systems are still functioning, it would be worth spending $1000 on a car that's only worth $1000 -- if, in this case, it keeps the car running at least six more months without other major repairs.

I recently advised a family member to perform the following maintenance on a '96 Dodge Stratus with 100k miles, a car that was purchased new:
1) timing belt,
2) AT fluid flush
3) front brake job,
4) tie-rod end, right side
Total cost was over $900, car has a Blue Book value of around $2000. My argument was that, while a new car might be nice to own, her current car has a lot more life left in it. And that most any new car she buys will cost her several thousand dollars in depreciation over the next year or two, while the Stratus is already fully depreciated.

Originally Posted By: Dyoel182
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Don't forget about the depreciation of the new car. That might exceed the cost of repairs to keep an older car running.


Depreciation is only a factor if you swap for a new car fairly soon. Its not like you magically lose more money after a year goes by.


Depreciation is the reason why you end up with a car worth $1000 or $2000, and you have to decide whether to fix it or replace it. You lose the value of an asset, meaning you are less wealthy. So it has the same effect on your net worth as if a thief stole that much money from you.

Just because you tell yourself that you do not intend to sell or trade in that vehicle, does not mean it is still worth what you paid for it. It has lost value, and you have lost value.
 
Originally Posted By: Tornado Red
Just because you tell yourself that you do not intend to sell or trade in that vehicle, does not mean it is still worth what you paid for it. It has lost value, and you have lost value.


Nothing is worth what you pay for it new. Buying new will always cost you more than buying used and buying used will always have a stigma attached to it.
 
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
. . .
Point is, sure, there's a place for buying a good, economical used car. I've done it four times myself. But we can't go making blanket statements that a used car is always a better deal for everyone (and vice versa).


Ding, ding, ding!!!
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
It would be interesting to see what the result would be if the advances in engine technology of the last 20 years, which have shown themselves in an outright doubling of peak engine output, were channeled instead into fuel economy improvements. Had engine development followed this path, the easy conclusions we make about buying cars for fuel economy improvements might not be so clear and easy.


You took the pixels right out of my mouth.

Performance is relative. Personally, I could care less if my car has 150hp or 300hp. It doesn't make a difference to me. It only takes 20-50hp to keep a car rolling at highway speed. 36hp 50s VW Beetles are slow, sure, but they can travel at interstate speeds.

My Torino when new was rated for 148hp. I doubt it can put out 100-110 to the rear wheels in its current worn condition. It can get to 75mph just fine and is still pulling HARD (and until I fix the brakes I am NOT trying to go faster). First two tanks are showing 15.5 and 15.8mpg. Remember, this is UNTUNED. I only reset the idle mixture screws to 1 1/4 turns out, adjusted the idle so it doesn't stall in gear after coming to a stop, and fixed the choke. I haven't hooked a tach or a vacuum gauge to it or anything. Just enough so it can be driven.

When the 351M finally gives up, I can drop in any 80s-90s 302/AOD combo from a wrecked big FoMoCo car, make it run with the harness and computer from said big car, and see about getting 20+mpg out of it. If a 4025lb 1990 Town Car can do 17 city 24 highway with that powertrain, so can my 3980lb Torino.
 
Originally Posted By: Dyoel182

Who said they weren't selling?


Originally Posted By: BrianWC
They sell, but not very well.


Wait 'til gas goes back above $3 a gallon. You'll have to order one then...
 
Originally Posted By: Vizzy
It ashame that VW hasn't brought over their excellent small diesel engines to the USA.

I'd gladly take a new 2010 Polo with a 1.4 turbo diesel engine that can achieve around 60 mpg. and has a decent manual transmission to boot. You can actually get excited about driving this model as well.


Not just VW, virtually every manufacturer has them. The emissions thing and maintaining performance and profitability are difficult hurdles to overcome. But eventually, it will happen. Even properly turbocharged small gasoline engines can yield major boosts in fuel economy. Ford is rumored to be working on a turbo-charged gas motor that will give the new third-generation Focus a 180 bhp engine with over 43 miles a gallon on the highway....
 
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Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: Dyoel182

Who said they weren't selling?


Originally Posted By: BrianWC
They sell, but not very well.


Wait 'til gas goes back above $3 a gallon. You'll have to order one then...


EH, we were referring specifically to the Civic Hybrid. Just saying it doesn't sell anywhere near the volume of the Prius, that's all.
 
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: Dyoel182

Who said they weren't selling?


Originally Posted By: BrianWC
They sell, but not very well.


Wait 'til gas goes back above $3 a gallon. You'll have to order one then...


EH, we were referring specifically to the Civic Hybrid. Just saying it doesn't sell anywhere near the volume of the Prius, that's all.


And he of course is correct. The real competitor to a Civic Hybrid is probably more likely a 1.8L Civic which still nets 36-miles per gallon and many get upwards of 40 mpg.

I'm just saying that hybrids of all stripes maybe pretty plentiful now, but won't be by mid-summer...


I'd like to know how the Fusion hybrid is selling since it was reviewed as being superior even to the Camry...
 
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