Honda MM question.

Joined
Sep 5, 2020
Messages
16
So, I had to make a new account, as I couldn’t sign into or reset my existing account here. So I will link my UOA in a moment.

2016 Honda Civic
2.0 CVT NON-Turbo, regular fuel injected.

I have strange driving habits, lots of miles, hours of idling per day, lots of engine starts.

The MM light triggers the oil change needed minder at about 3,200 miles between changes (15% remaining). I feel like that’s too soon for modern oil and have been stretching it to 6500 miles.

I guess my question is: Is the Honda MM so aggressive due to the idling time and number of engine starts?

UOA Links:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...ong-idles-4k-miles-month.309703/#post-5114240

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-5600-miles-long-idles-4k-miles-month.313199/
 
Without looking at your UOA, I would have no hesitation following Honda's OLM since it does account for idling, engine starts and cold running operation, with 0w20 synthetic blend in mind. Run the OLM down to 0% as a compromise.

I'm no expert when it comes to UOA, but I see the TBN on your last report was 4.3 over 5600 miles with the OLM triggering at 10% which shows some buffer. It seems like you want to run a longer oil change but are unsure if you should go past the MM? Run the OLM down to 0%. I don't think the oil could go two times the MM. Running to 0% gets you close enough and you maintain the other important 2-6 MM codes.
 
Honda's MM used to be very conservative, I am not sure if it's still the same for newer models. However, 6k OCI should be fine with a synthetic oil, considering it's a port fuel injection.

I'd be more worried if you drive it short distance every day, instead of excessive idling.
 
I have a 2006 Civic Si with the K20Z3 motor and have done UOA starting with first oil change and then progressively ran down the oil life monitor (MM) to run 1k past 0%(7869 mile sample). The whole time running the same Castrol GTX 5W30 and Honda filter. I have and would suggest change interval based on the MM unless you do multiple samples to feel confident in your oil and driving habits.

2006 Civic Si oil samples

CTopher
 
Honda's MM used to be very conservative, I am not sure if it's still the same for newer models. However, 6k OCI should be fine with a synthetic oil, considering it's a port fuel injection.

I'd be more worried if you drive it short distance every day, instead of excessive idling.

I also do a ton of short trips, I drive to a town. Idle and do office work, drive to a place, talk with them for a while, idle some more, drive to a place talk with them, repeat that 10x times a Day, little more idle time, then drive home.

5x a week. It’s a bizarre driving structure.
 
I have a 2006 Civic Si with the K20Z3 motor and have done UOA starting with first oil change and then progressively ran down the oil life monitor (MM) to run 1k past 0%(7869 mile sample). The whole time running the same Castrol GTX 5W30 and Honda filter. I have and would suggest change interval based on the MM unless you do multiple samples to feel confident in your oil and driving habits.

2006 Civic Si oil samples

CTopher

I linked to UOA’s. If the MM comes on around 3200 miles, the first UOA was 2400 (5600 OCI) miles over and the second was 4k miles over (7500 OCI).
 
I ignored mine in both Jeeps from day one. I established the OCI based on common sense and UOA data to back it up. If I were to follow the OLM I'd be changing oil every 2K miles or so in my 08 Liberty. UOA data shows it can go about three times that, safely. There's probably something wrong with it, and I have no desire wasting money on it to find out what is wrong with it. Honda might be a different story, but in my opinion the OLM is not the holy grain some would lead you to believe it is.
 
If you don't have sub-freezing winters, I'd do 6K mile changes with a brand name synthetic 5w-20 and a Fram Ultra filter for two intervals and forget about the MM.

We get sub freezing and past 100f. Are you not recommending 5w-20 for below freezing?
 
I meant sub-zero. Then I'd use 0w-20. Temps below freezing and above 100 F? What location? For my Honda MM, I don't drive the Ridgeline much, but the MM never goes below 30%.

I’m in MO, terrible winters and terrible summers. I think I’ll stretch my MM to 0% and see what the miles are at the point. I usually let the MM tell me it’s time (15%) and then reset that and do it again. Gives me 6500 OIC.
 
What do you average in mpg for real (not digital readout).and.how.much oil does it take to refill?

I average around around 23 mpg. 220-260 miles on 9.8 gallons on average. The the digital readout is very accurate for MPG. Spring and fall are easier on the car, as I can open the windows and work instead of running the AC or heat.
 
Assumptions:
4.4 qt of refill capacity with 8.0 TBN Oil
122 cubic inches
158 bhp
23 mpg

Using Ted Kublin's old formula that's 6200 mi between oil change on basic API SN / GF-5 Oil. With a Premium Synthetic I don't see a problem with 10,000 mi OCI seeing you are still 3.4 TBN at 7,500 mi. I would just put something like M1 EP 0W-20 (60-70% PAO) in it and run it.

PS Ted's formula has always been conservative in my applications.
 
Assumptions:
4.4 qt of refill capacity with 8.0 TBN Oil
122 cubic inches
158 bhp
23 mpg

Using Ted Kublin's old formula that's 6200 mi between oil change on basic API SN / GF-5 Oil. With a Premium Synthetic I don't see a problem with 10,000 mi OCI seeing you are still 3.4 TBN at 7,500 mi. I would just put something like M1 EP 0W-20 (60-70% PAO) in it and run it.

PS Ted's formula has always been conservative in my applications.

Gene, what filter are you running for 7500 OCI in this scenario?
 
Gene, what filter are you running for 7500 OCI in this scenario?

I'm not a Honda expert by any stretch but if they now use a Fram Filter in the US at the dealers and that's a canister filter I would likely upgrade to a Fram Ultra if I was going to go 10,000 mi or some other quality high capacity synthetic media filter like a NAPA/Wix XP if you can't get past the Fram name. If they still used Filtech I would think the OEM would be okay. I'm not really that familiar on cartridge filters. If you are trying to keep cost down Denso makes a pretty good budget filter in my opinion.
 
FWIW, my wife's 2008 CR-V would go about 9k to 9.5k miles before it would get down to 15% on the maintenance minder. Did this for 11 years and 160,000 miles. Thus far, her 2019 Pilot is following just about the same schedule.
 
Idling is no different than putting miles on the car when it comes to oil degradation and wear and tear so the maintenance minder is not really being "aggressive". You figure, if you idle your car for 2 hours a day, that is equivalent to driving at least 60 miles or maybe more. So stick to the MM and I would probably go to 0%. That engine is not hard on oil.
 
Last edited:
Idling is no different than putting miles on the car when it comes to oil degradation and wear and tear so the maintenance minder is not really being "aggressive". You figure, if you idle your car for 2 hours a day, that is equivalent to driving at least 60 miles or maybe more. So stick to the MM and I would probably go to 0%. That engine is not hard on oil.

If I remember correctly, the Crown Vic Police Interceptor owners manual stated every hour of idle time was equivalent to 33 miles.
 
Back
Top