Honda MM logic vs. BITOG logic

Messages
530
Location
Atlanta, GA
When we purchased our Honda Fit in 2009, we were taught about the built-in Maintenance Minder (MM) by our salesman. He stressed how important it was to follow the MM timing for our service. As we drove it the first year, I was amazed at how slowly the MM counted down. We made it past 10,000 miles without it getting to 0%. Thinking something was wrong, I even brought it in to the dealer's service department at around 10k miles with 30% remaining on the MM. The service writer told me the oil didn't need changing and to come back when it was at 15% or lower. He didn't seem phased by the 10k miles on the oil. For a few more cycles -- before I was introduced to BITOG -- our Fit's MM didn't hit 10-15% until somewhere around 10k miles each time, sometimes more. The MM even had an "A" and "B" code. An "A" code was oil change only, no filter change. A "B" code involved both oil and filter change. A and B codes alternated. Essentially, before I was introduced to BITOG, I was blissfully doing 10k+ mile OCIs with 20k mile filter changes performed at the dealership each time. Now after being introduced to the world of BITOG around 2012, here I am running 7,500 - 9,000 mile OCIs and being so concerned about the possibility of engine wear I am getting UOAs on my oil changes. I'm also changing my filter with every oil change. My oil changes are out of synch with the MMs recommendations because I'm doing them more frequently. So is Honda's MM logic wrong or am I simply unhealthily obsessed with oil changes now? Am I doing something wrong by changing the filter each time? Does it make sense that the MM was recommending 10k OCIs for us?
 
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Pajamarama

Thread starter
Messages
530
Location
Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: gonefishing
What was the oil in use when you were following the MM? What oil does the manual recommend?
Changes were performed by the dealership so whatever bulk 5w-20 they were using. I imagine it was synth blend since the changes were relatively inexpensive (30 bucks). Car is specced for 5w-20 and has been backspecced for 0w-20. I always use 5w-20 now that I am doing changes myself.
 
Messages
5,445
Location
MTL, CANADA
I know Honda dealers usually say to swap oil filter every second change. I guess they are just advised to follow the MM. However..if you are paying for it..you can have them do what you want rather then what they suggest. Idoubt you would have an issue if you follow their ways. If you prefer to do it less often on ur own use a quality syn and fram ultra, wix or any other quality filter and follow the MM to whatever percent you see fit.
 
Messages
2,547
Location
IL
Change filter every other change; 0- prevents ingress of contaminates(dirt or junk from new filter, dirt on motor) 0- Filters get more efficient the longer they are used. 0- Saves you money, saves landfill space 0- use a good quality filter, NOT a Purolator!
 
Messages
1,981
Location
Greatest Earth on Show, UT
What have your UOAs told you? Have you been getting TBN with those to verify OCI length? I could probably get 10k out of the OLM on my Grand Prix if my "highway" miles weren't so stop-and-go and it is spec'd for a 5W-30 meeting GM's pre-dexos oil spec, so probably a syn blend or good conventional.
 

Pajamarama

Thread starter
Messages
530
Location
Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: NMBurb02
What have your UOAs told you?
UOAs can be viewed here. Didn't get a TBN on my first change since I knew I wasn't going to use dealer oil anymore. Based on the 2nd change, I could go further than 8k miles on QSUD but not much more. Now that I'm switching oils again, I'll get another TBN this next time at 9k.
 
Messages
7,438
Location
FL, USA
OLM have "low cost of ownership" factored in as well. I would do UOA on it at 15% and see how the oil is holding up before accepting it. Do they do the job? Absolutley! Your car should make it a long way before you have oil related issues. But who knows, it could mean the difference between your car making it to 200,000 and beyond...or giving up early and ending up an oil burner.
 
Messages
2,107
Location
Appleton, WI
This place has that affect on most of us. I sometimes think that I'd have less anxiety in my life if I'd never found this site, but I do enjoy hanging out here. As for your oil question, QSUD and the PU you're using now will certainly be better than whatever bulk oil your dealer was giving you, so if I were you I wouldn't worry too much. Follow the MM and change the filter every time if it allows you to sleep better at night. Or change it every other time if being environmentally conscience makes you feel better. Personally, in my Honda I will be following the MM going forward and using up my stash of QSUD 5W-30 instead of a 0W-20. I do have VCM to think about, thus why I'll be using the 5W-30. You don't have VCM, so any good 0W-20 should work well for you.
 

pbm

Messages
8,890
Location
New York
BITOG has had the opposite effect on me. I used to be a 3K OCI guy until BITOG enlightened me to my wasteful ways. I seriously doubt I'll ever go 10K on an OCI but I have gone 7K and 8K several times since coming here.
 
Messages
17,303
Location
Upper Midwest
This is an excellent question, along with asking how "being so concerned about the possibility of engine wear I am getting UOAs on my oil changes" shows useful information?
Originally Posted By: badtlc
what in your UOAs told you the MM was wrong?
 
Messages
1,429
Location
quebec canada
Dont sweat it .as long as honda make sure the mm system isnt broken,you are safe with honda way.air filter on truck are change in the same manner.when the mechanical meter say full they change air filter .
 
Messages
178
Location
New Jersey
I find the MM on my Honda Odyssey pretty much on target. I usually change it out around the 20% mark but would have no problem running it down to 0% since I always use a good synthetic 5W-20/0W-20 like M1, PP or Castrol Edge
 
Messages
5,466
Location
Buckley, Wa.
You've got no worries even if the dealership uses bulk oil and changes the oil per the manual/MM.....oil filter swapped out or not. But, doing it yourself saves time and money plus gives you choices and assurance you won't get from a dealer. My Ridgeline I do myself unless it is more than I want to deal with. I typically run the MM down to 20% and always change the filter with the oil. Generally use the best oil I think is out there (TGMO) but have used Mobil 1. Never had any other codes show up yet for other scheduled maintenance tasks. Probably drain/fill transmission fluid soon myself.
 

djb

Messages
786
Location
Los Gatos CA
Air filters are easier to understand. Oil filters are magic. A good air filter will trap essentially all significant dust throughout its life. With closed loop air mass measurement, the filter only needs to be replaced when the pressure drop objectionably drops wide-open-throttle performance. If you drive in clean areas, your intake air filter should last more than a decade of average driving, perhaps even the life of the vehicle. A few minutes of operation in a real dust storm could clog it beyond effective use. An oil filter is very different. There is rarely an issue with pressure drop from filter loading -- even a 5 psi drop at full flow won't be significant. And single pass efficiency isn't critical. A tear is pretty much the same as occasionally operating in bypass. The same oil will pass 50,000 to a million times through the filter. Even if a filterable particle is missed the first pass, it will likely be trapped the next time through. So as long as the engine isn't generating soot, wear particles or sludge the filter can predictably last a long time.
 
Messages
17,301
Location
OH
The Honda MM algorithym accounts for a variety of operating factors. If the car is used under pretty ideal conditions, it'll allow fairly long drain intervals, although Honda also caps the fun at one year by calendar time. Your Fit must be operated under conditions that allow long OCIs. Short trips or real winter would bring much shorter OCIs by the MM. A real advantage of IOLM systems is that they take all of the guesswork out of when the oil really needs to be changed. I change our '12 Accord after 15% MM, just that simple. I do change the oil filter at every oil change, although this is not necessary according to Honda.
 
Messages
7,438
Location
FL, USA
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The Honda MM algorithym accounts for a variety of operating factors. If the car is used under pretty ideal conditions, it'll allow fairly long drain intervals, although Honda also caps the fun at one year by calendar time. Your Fit must be operated under conditions that allow long OCIs. Short trips or real winter would bring much shorter OCIs by the MM. A real advantage of IOLM systems is that they take all of the guesswork out of when the oil really needs to be changed. I change our '12 Accord after 15% MM, just that simple. I do change the oil filter at every oil change, although this is not necessary according to Honda.
Out of curiosity, are you using the HGMO full synthetic or synthetic blend? I have the blend in my car now...how is yours running with it?
 
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