I'm looking for a nice used Subaru for the wife for winter. The Avenger is horrible in the snow and I don't really want her and our son in that thing in bad weather. Anything I should look for while checking one out? I'm looking at the Legacy models. When is the timing belt due for service? Any quirks or other odd things I need to watch out for?? What years are better than others, ect. Thanks for any feedback guys!
Higher Mileage Subarus?
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I'm not going to bother. Since new its chewed the rear tires to [censored]. I've taken it to the dealer so many times and they said there's nothing wrong, now its out of warranty they don't care. I've taken it to indy shops and the alignment has been "fine." The right rear tire goes bald from the outside in and it's smooth. I'm about to sell it and eat the loss. Every time you hit and bump the rear and jumps all over.
The early 90s or perhaps most 90s-era Legacy engines of the 2.5L H4 may have a head gasket issue as a known problem. May or may not be true on the 2.2L engines of same configuration, models, if any were in a Legacy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Legacy_(second_generation)
The factory gaskets have a coating that deteriorates over time (typically between 80-120k miles.) This from The Dreaded Subaru Head Gasket Issue
Quote:
These vehicles all have cylinder head gasket related issues:
Impreza 1999 to 2011
Forester 1999 to 2010
Legacy 2000 to 2009
Outback 2000 to 2009
Baja 2003 to 2006
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Legacy_(second_generation)
The factory gaskets have a coating that deteriorates over time (typically between 80-120k miles.) This from The Dreaded Subaru Head Gasket Issue
Quote:
These vehicles all have cylinder head gasket related issues:
Impreza 1999 to 2011
Forester 1999 to 2010
Legacy 2000 to 2009
Outback 2000 to 2009
Baja 2003 to 2006
You're going to pay through the nose this time of year.
2nd on the snow tire recommendation.
Or think outside the box and get a Suzuki SX4 4wd; it doesn't have the name recognition as Subie.
Subies had head gasket and bolt issues in the early/ mid 2000s and you have to have a crib sheet to see which models, turbo or plain, are affected over which years. Also consider they're out in the slush and salt all the time, so watch for rust.
I see subarus, CR-Vs, and Rogues here driven by total idiots, who, I assume, buy something cheap with 4wd to cover their lack of skill, diagnosed or unknown. I'd hate to buy a used and abused one. Tread carefully or buy new-- imprezas took a price slash with the current generation and are only ~$18k to start.
2nd on the snow tire recommendation.
Or think outside the box and get a Suzuki SX4 4wd; it doesn't have the name recognition as Subie.
Subies had head gasket and bolt issues in the early/ mid 2000s and you have to have a crib sheet to see which models, turbo or plain, are affected over which years. Also consider they're out in the slush and salt all the time, so watch for rust.
I see subarus, CR-Vs, and Rogues here driven by total idiots, who, I assume, buy something cheap with 4wd to cover their lack of skill, diagnosed or unknown. I'd hate to buy a used and abused one. Tread carefully or buy new-- imprezas took a price slash with the current generation and are only ~$18k to start.
There is an oil burning issue with some recent year models.
Fuji issued a recall, but you will have to check a Subie site for the exact years.
Fuji issued a recall, but you will have to check a Subie site for the exact years.
I'm a Subaru fan and former owner, but I'll say this first: the AWD will help with accelerating and hills, but turning and stopping will be no better than her current car. You'll save money and she'll be better off with a set of snow tires.
Get a set of 16" steel wheels with snow tires already mounted so you can do the switch yourself in the driveway. You can make this selection right on Tire Rack.
I don't know where in NY you are, but a craigslist search for "avenger" in the wheels category yields some decent results like this.
Get a set of 16" steel wheels with snow tires already mounted so you can do the switch yourself in the driveway. You can make this selection right on Tire Rack.
I don't know where in NY you are, but a craigslist search for "avenger" in the wheels category yields some decent results like this.
Alright, you updated this while I was typing. If you're going to trade the Avenger for a Subaru, consider the most recent Forester or Outback you can afford, with the CVT. Those equipped with manual transmissions seemed more prone to oil burning.
Besides the head gasket issues, you also have an interference engine. I also recommend snow tires or something other than a Subaru (really a very mediocre to below average car).
Jeepers, Those cars have issues.... All those years were the ones we were looking at with head gasket issues. No wonder all the craigslist ads said the head gaskets were replaced. I guess it would be cheaper to just put snow tires on it but I just don't like that dang car. She likes the styling of the 07-08 Legacy but I guess we'll steer clear with motor problems. We're all the way up in St. Lawrence county, hooray snow.
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Go one more model yr newer to 2009 and the head gasket issue is mostly gone with the EJ25 motor. Here's the thing with the 2009's and newer on head gaskets: the car really should receive the scheduled maintenance when the manual says it's due, which in the case of head gasket health means coolant flush every 30,000 miles and the person doing the flush must add the specific Subaru coolant conditioner to the new coolant going in. Doesn't mean a HG failure still can't occur past 100,000 miles but tends to reduce chances or lengthen mileage before it does. 105,000 miles or 7 years is the interval for timing belt change on the EJ25. It was model yr 2011 that they introduced the FA25 engine with timing chain, and the oil burning began and reports of excessive consumption continued through model yr 2014 if I remember right. There was even a class action law suit about that.
Our 2006 Outback was as solid and reliable as you can get-we bought it with about 30,000 miles on it and sold it with somewhere north of 160,000 miles with nothing more than normal maintenance. It never failed to navigate unplowed rural roads, and never failed to make it up our long, fairly steep driveway (no 2 wheel drive will get up it in snow no matter what tires are on it). It never used enough oil to need to be topped off between oil changes (twice a year regardless of mileage). Despite having a timing belt it never caused an issue-I simply changed it at the recommended interval (I knew that when I bought it so it was no surprise).
You have to take a lot of what you read on the Internet with a grain of salt-many of the reviews are from people who have never owned one and yet are Internet "experts", and the people that never have an issue with them don't post because they have nothing to complain about. Just as you would with any other used car, look it over carefully (or have it looked over if you're not mechanically inclined) and budget for a repair or two. If you need to make repairs, you'll have the budget. If you don't need repairs then you're money ahead.
You have to take a lot of what you read on the Internet with a grain of salt-many of the reviews are from people who have never owned one and yet are Internet "experts", and the people that never have an issue with them don't post because they have nothing to complain about. Just as you would with any other used car, look it over carefully (or have it looked over if you're not mechanically inclined) and budget for a repair or two. If you need to make repairs, you'll have the budget. If you don't need repairs then you're money ahead.
There's obviously something wrong with the rear suspension alignment.
A sharp alignment guy can identify and fix this.
We have a couple of these four cylinder wonders in the fleet at work and they really aren't bad cars to drive.
The OEM Michelins are pretty mediocre but we have 71K on the OEM tires of one of them and they're still around 4/32, although I'll buy it new tires before winter.
Get the Avenger fixed and put a set of dedicated winters on it. If you've never driven on winter tires, you'll be in awe of just how much better they are in real winter conditions than any A/S tire.
We've had pretty good experience with the Subarus we've had, but I have to wonder whether the extra running costs of the AWD that you face all of the time are worth the extraordinary bad weather performance you need maybe 2% of the time.
A sharp alignment guy can identify and fix this.
We have a couple of these four cylinder wonders in the fleet at work and they really aren't bad cars to drive.
The OEM Michelins are pretty mediocre but we have 71K on the OEM tires of one of them and they're still around 4/32, although I'll buy it new tires before winter.
Get the Avenger fixed and put a set of dedicated winters on it. If you've never driven on winter tires, you'll be in awe of just how much better they are in real winter conditions than any A/S tire.
We've had pretty good experience with the Subarus we've had, but I have to wonder whether the extra running costs of the AWD that you face all of the time are worth the extraordinary bad weather performance you need maybe 2% of the time.
Besides head gaskets, there are a few other things to check out.
Wheel bearings. TSB's extended warranty on some models due to failures.
PCV and idle air control valve (not on all models, but older ones common) need to be serviced at ~50k intervals.
Cam advance system, VVT has a control block (each head) that can get gummed up in engines not well oci'd. Mid 2000's and later. Once you get at it, usually can service by cleaning out well.
Air bag recall?
Check all the Axle boots, especially inboard passenger side.
Older subies often have power steering leaks at the rack bellows.
Rear shaft bearing is non-serviceable. If over 150k, be sure to have that checked. New shaft is not cheap.
Safe insurance is to have someone familiar with subarus put it up on a lift and check it out thoroughly so there are no surprises.
Subaru with conti contact extremes is about unstoppable in snow, unless the snow is several inches above the bottom of the bumper.
Wheel bearings. TSB's extended warranty on some models due to failures.
PCV and idle air control valve (not on all models, but older ones common) need to be serviced at ~50k intervals.
Cam advance system, VVT has a control block (each head) that can get gummed up in engines not well oci'd. Mid 2000's and later. Once you get at it, usually can service by cleaning out well.
Air bag recall?
Check all the Axle boots, especially inboard passenger side.
Older subies often have power steering leaks at the rack bellows.
Rear shaft bearing is non-serviceable. If over 150k, be sure to have that checked. New shaft is not cheap.
Safe insurance is to have someone familiar with subarus put it up on a lift and check it out thoroughly so there are no surprises.
Subaru with conti contact extremes is about unstoppable in snow, unless the snow is several inches above the bottom of the bumper.
After reading that dreaded head gasket issue link, I'm more than sure I'll never own a Subie. How they maintain resale value is beyond me after that read. They actually make a BMW look reliable!
I was perusing a WRX website recently and the new ones aren't much better; extreme turbo lag and notchy shifting stuck out as an issue with nearly every one of them, and they are new cars! What else will crop up as the miles pile on?
Is it no longer possible for car makers to build a smooth shifting transmission bolted up to reliable engine in a car that doesn't rattle or leak or fall apart that can drive reliably for 150k with just normal maintenance? I fear those kind of vehicles are becoming more and more rare.
I was perusing a WRX website recently and the new ones aren't much better; extreme turbo lag and notchy shifting stuck out as an issue with nearly every one of them, and they are new cars! What else will crop up as the miles pile on?
Is it no longer possible for car makers to build a smooth shifting transmission bolted up to reliable engine in a car that doesn't rattle or leak or fall apart that can drive reliably for 150k with just normal maintenance? I fear those kind of vehicles are becoming more and more rare.
Get a professional alignment on the rear of the avenger, not a dealer. I had the same issue with the Focus, a camber kit and an alignment shop that knew what they were doing and I have put 30K miles on the current set of tires and the rears are wearing evenly.
It's only 3 years old. It has a common bolt pattern. I think it's your best bet to get the rear alignment sorted out and put some snow tires on junkyard wheels.
It's only 3 years old. It has a common bolt pattern. I think it's your best bet to get the rear alignment sorted out and put some snow tires on junkyard wheels.
Bitog is the troll subaru fanbase
HG on the NON-Turbo 2.5L from late 90's to about 2008 were problematic. About like the chevy issues with intake gaskets.
2009-2010 seem to not have many HG issues.
2011+ is a different engine FB25.
I love subarus, but I would probably only buy new due to the amazing resale.
A base forester is about $21500.
The all new 2017 impreza is really good vehicle. around $19000
Built in USA(indiana) on subaru's new global platform.
Extremely safe vehicles and with decent tires unstoppable in the winter.
Note the OEM tires are below average in winter.
This can be troublesome as you get going very easy then have issues stopping.
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
It was model yr 2011 that they introduced the FA25 engine
The FA20 was in the BRZ Non-turbo
The FA20DIT is the "direct injection turbocharged" engine in the 2014+ forester
The Fb25 is the non-turbo engine
2011- forester
2013 legacy, outback.
2013 outback etc.
HG on the NON-Turbo 2.5L from late 90's to about 2008 were problematic. About like the chevy issues with intake gaskets.
2009-2010 seem to not have many HG issues.
2011+ is a different engine FB25.
I love subarus, but I would probably only buy new due to the amazing resale.
A base forester is about $21500.
The all new 2017 impreza is really good vehicle. around $19000
Built in USA(indiana) on subaru's new global platform.
Extremely safe vehicles and with decent tires unstoppable in the winter.
Note the OEM tires are below average in winter.
This can be troublesome as you get going very easy then have issues stopping.
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
It was model yr 2011 that they introduced the FA25 engine
The FA20 was in the BRZ Non-turbo
The FA20DIT is the "direct injection turbocharged" engine in the 2014+ forester
The Fb25 is the non-turbo engine
2011- forester
2013 legacy, outback.
2013 outback etc.
+1
There have been entire threads here started by someone who has never even sat in any Subaru much less owned one.
The same is true of BMW.
The common thread is how lousy and troublesome these cars are.
We've had three of them and they really aren't bad to own. The same is true of BMWs.
In both cases, you get a level of capability, of different kinds, that you don't find in "good" cars like Camrys, Corollas and Accords.
Why the troll posts on both Subaru and BMW seem so common is beyond me.
Own one and use it for some appreciable number of miles and then comment.
Don't post replies or threads on any car with which your experience is limited to an internet search, which will yield results no more reflective of experience than the one's you then post here.
There have been entire threads here started by someone who has never even sat in any Subaru much less owned one.
The same is true of BMW.
The common thread is how lousy and troublesome these cars are.
We've had three of them and they really aren't bad to own. The same is true of BMWs.
In both cases, you get a level of capability, of different kinds, that you don't find in "good" cars like Camrys, Corollas and Accords.
Why the troll posts on both Subaru and BMW seem so common is beyond me.
Own one and use it for some appreciable number of miles and then comment.
Don't post replies or threads on any car with which your experience is limited to an internet search, which will yield results no more reflective of experience than the one's you then post here.
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