High Performance Lubricants No VII series engine oils.

[TiGeo]

All the HPL products use very high amounts of moly, except their Euro line which uses a high amount of boron instead of moly due to a clash between the euro ad pack and moly.

*except for the Euro 5W40

 

[buster]

The more I read about diesters, the more I think that is the part of HPL that does the heavy cleaning.\\

"Diesters have excellent solvency and will aggressively “clean-up” systems deposits that might have formed while mineral oil based lubricants were in use"

 

[Hohn]

Would it be reasonable to conclude that the SAE30 and SAE40 grades of regular PCMO are also No-VII even though they aren’t listed under the No-VII listing?

I always assumed that straight grade meant no VII. Is that the case here? I think for someone who never had to deal with cold start, the straight grades might actually be an interesting option.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Would it be reasonable to conclude that the SAE30 and SAE40 grades of regular PCMO are also No-VII even though they aren’t listed under the No-VII listing?

I always assumed that straight grade meant no VII. Is that the case here? I think for someone who never had to deal with cold start, the straight grades might actually be an interesting option.

Correct. They are no VII, just not advertised as such. The SAE 30 is actually just a hair shy of the cP limit for 10W-30 so it's technically a 15W-30. Again, not advertised as such since there's no real point in doing so.

 

[Oodee]

Update on our consumption issue with our 2018 Audi Q7 (3.0):

Switched to HPL Euro to help solve/slow down our oil consumption issue.

As other people stated on BITOG, consumption slowed down drastically as mileage accrued. First 1250, it seemed like it was burning oil like before, this second half of 1250, it has slowed down a lot. Currently 2500 miles in and have little less than half oil level reading. In other words, at this point, last year the oil level warning would have come up by now. So looking at a 50% improvement so far!

Still planning on changing the oil out in another 500 miles and opening the filter to see if i can see any deposits. May do an BG EPR at the same time.

3000 mile update, oil burning/loss has stopped! At the same level as the above post! I can’t believe it! <3 you HPL.

 

[scrllock]

@High Performance Lubricants can the data sheets for VII get updated to reflect the 10w-40 that is shown to be available for purchase? Or have these blends not been finalized?

For some of us with high-dilution applications, that 10w-40 could be a great frequent-warm-but-short-trip oil for known fuel diluters (like my Honda).

Bumping this request for @High Performance Lubricants

 

[Hohn]

Correct. They are no VII, just not advertised as such. The SAE 30 is actually just a hair shy of the cP limit for 10W-30 so it's technically a 15W-30. Again, not advertised as such since there's no real point in doing so.

I think there might be overlooked value to doing so. Some customers might want to be able to have that approximate equivalent "w". It's the same utility by providing the 10w20 viscosity rating for oils that have essentially no VII. (i.e. the regular PCMO 10w20) when not a single OEM recommending a 20 grade does so with a 10w rating.

And it's consistent with the spirit of labeling an oil with the lowest "w" grade met-- i.e. a 5w oil cannot be labeled a 10w.

I would respectfully request that if the SAE 30 meets 15w30, it should be labeled as such, just as the SAE 40 could or should be labeled as 20w40 or whatever. It seems likely to me that the SAE40 would have a better CCS than the 20w50 (even if not enough better to get a 15w rating). That might be useful for a customer to know.

Straight grade oils couldn't meet *any* cold rating back in the day and multigrades only existed once VIs improved to where one oil fell within both scales.

There's a relevant difference between an oil that can't meet a spec and one that meets it but isn't labeled for it. It's not much different than having a blend the oil blender knows will crush an API SP or an MB229.51 but not formally licensed/approved/endorsed.

Now, if it drives some costly testing to test CCS and appropriately assign a "w" rating, that's one thing. But it sounds like the testing is already done. Which makes the decision to omit the "w" quite inexplicable to me.

Offering a 15w30 or a 20w40 next to a 10w20 in the context of a "No VII" series would further highlight that HPL is not your ordinary oil blender while giving customers a direct "w" rating comparisons to other grades.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Bumping this request for @High Performance Lubricants

It was made by specific request for 3rd Gen Ecodiesels to combat the major bearing wear problems they're having. (which it did beautifully) They may not keep a steady stock of it, just make it to order, which could be why it's not advertised with the rest. That PDS was also made before the No VII 10W-40 was made so it's just as probable that it simply hasn't been updated yet.

I think there might be overlooked value to doing so. Some customers might want to be able to have that approximate equivalent "w". It's the same utility by providing the 10w20 viscosity rating for oils that have essentially no VII. (i.e. the regular PCMO 10w20) when not a single OEM recommending a 20 grade does so with a 10w rating.

And it's consistent with the spirit of labeling an oil with the lowest "w" grade met-- i.e. a 5w oil cannot be labeled a 10w.

I would respectfully request that if the SAE 30 meets 15w30, it should be labeled as such, just as the SAE 40 could or should be labeled as 20w40 or whatever. It seems likely to me that the SAE40 would have a better CCS than the 20w50 (even if not enough better to get a 15w rating). That might be useful for a customer to know.

Straight grade oils couldn't meet *any* cold rating back in the day and multigrades only existed once VIs improved to where one oil fell within both scales.

There's a relevant difference between an oil that can't meet a spec and one that meets it but isn't labeled for it. It's not much different than having a blend the oil blender knows will crush an API SP or an MB229.51 but not formally licensed/approved/endorsed.

Now, if it drives some costly testing to test CCS and appropriately assign a "w" rating, that's one thing. But it sounds like the testing is already done. Which makes the decision to omit the "w" quite inexplicable to me.

Offering a 15w30 or a 20w40 next to a 10w20 in the context of a "No VII" series would further highlight that HPL is not your ordinary oil blender while giving customers a direct "w" rating comparisons to other grades.

There's no point in doing so for the target customer base. HPL doesn't appeal to the masses but rather to the racing world and BITOG. Anybody interested in HPL is already looking past the oil grades into the specs themselves. I like to see the CCS, KV100, and HTHS with the oil grade being an afterthought.

 

[kschachn]

Would it be reasonable to conclude that the SAE30 and SAE40 grades of regular PCMO are also No-VII even though they aren’t listed under the No-VII listing?

I always assumed that straight grade meant no VII. Is that the case here? I think for someone who never had to deal with cold start, the straight grades might actually be an interesting option.

From J300:

Oils which are formulated with polymeric viscosity index improvers for the purpose of making them multiviscosity grade products are non-Newtonian and must be labeled with the appropriate multiviscosity grade (both W and high-temperature grade)

 

[TiGeo]

HPL doesn't appeal to the masses but rather to the racing world and BITOG.

Accurate "Racing world. Oh, and BITOG."

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

All the HPL products use very high amounts of moly, except their Euro line which uses a high amount of boron instead of moly due to a clash between the euro ad pack and moly.

The Euro line has low moly, you say?

This is No VII Euro 5w30:

SAMPLE INFORMATION	Unit of Measurement	Reject Limit	Result
Sample Date	03 May 2024
Machine Age	miles	82988
Oil Age	miles	14394
Oil Changed	Not Changed
CONTAMINATION
Fuel	>4.0	<1.0
Water	>0.2	NEG
Glycol	NEG
WEAR METALS
Iron	ppm	>150	29
Chromium	ppm	>20	<1
Nickel	ppm	>5	0
Titanium	ppm	<1
Silver	ppm	>2	0
Aluminum	ppm	>40	15
Lead	ppm	>50	0
Copper	ppm	>155	11
Tin	ppm	>10	<1
Vanadium	ppm	0
Cadmium	ppm	0
ADDITIVES
Boron	ppm	200	53
Barium	ppm	3
Molybdenum	ppm	85	732
Manganese	ppm	4
Magnesium	ppm	525	1162
Calcium	ppm	4300	2381
Phosphorus	ppm	1000	862
Zinc	ppm	1100	991
Sulfur	ppm	20200	7511
CONTAMINANTS
Silicon	ppm	>30	25
Sodium	ppm	>400	10
Potassium	ppm	>20	1
INFRA-RED
Soot %	%	0.1
Nitration	Abs/cm	>20	21.6
Sulfation	Abs/.1mm	>30	55.9
FLUID DEGRADATION
Oxidation	Abs/.1mm	>25	48.1
Base Number (BN)	mg KOH/g	11.0	7.78
VISUAL
White Metal	scalar	NONE	NONE
Yellow Metal	scalar	NONE	NONE
Precipitate	scalar	NONE	NONE
Silt	scalar	NONE	NONE
Debris	scalar	NONE	NONE
Sand/Dirt	scalar	NONE	NONE
Appearance	scalar	NORML	NORML
Odor	scalar	NORML	NORML
Emulsified Water	scalar	>0.2	NEG
Free Water	scalar	NEG
FLUID PROPERTIES
Visc @ 100°C	cSt	11.19	12.7

 

[hemioiler]

The Euro line has low moly, you say?

This is No VII Euro 5w30:

SAMPLE INFORMATION	Unit of Measurement	Reject Limit	Result
Sample Date	03 May 2024
Machine Age	miles	82988
Oil Age	miles	14394
Oil Changed	Not Changed
CONTAMINATION
Fuel	>4.0	<1.0
Water	>0.2	NEG
Glycol	NEG
WEAR METALS
Iron	ppm	>150	29
Chromium	ppm	>20	<1
Nickel	ppm	>5	0
Titanium	ppm	<1
Silver	ppm	>2	0
Aluminum	ppm	>40	15
Lead	ppm	>50	0
Copper	ppm	>155	11
Tin	ppm	>10	<1
Vanadium	ppm	0
Cadmium	ppm	0
ADDITIVES
Boron	ppm	200	53
Barium	ppm	3
Molybdenum	ppm	85	732
Manganese	ppm	4
Magnesium	ppm	525	1162
Calcium	ppm	4300	2381
Phosphorus	ppm	1000	862
Zinc	ppm	1100	991
Sulfur	ppm	20200	7511
CONTAMINANTS
Silicon	ppm	>30	25
Sodium	ppm	>400	10
Potassium	ppm	>20	1
INFRA-RED
Soot %	%	0.1
Nitration	Abs/cm	>20	21.6
Sulfation	Abs/.1mm	>30	55.9
FLUID DEGRADATION
Oxidation	Abs/.1mm	>25	48.1
Base Number (BN)	mg KOH/g	11.0	7.78
VISUAL
White Metal	scalar	NONE	NONE
Yellow Metal	scalar	NONE	NONE
Precipitate	scalar	NONE	NONE
Silt	scalar	NONE	NONE
Debris	scalar	NONE	NONE
Sand/Dirt	scalar	NONE	NONE
Appearance	scalar	NORML	NORML
Odor	scalar	NORML	NORML
Emulsified Water	scalar	>0.2	NEG
Free Water	scalar	NEG
FLUID PROPERTIES
Visc @ 100°C	cSt	11.19	12.7

That's not the "euro" line, that's the "no vii euro".

I'm referring to the "euro passenger car":
https://www.advlubrication.com/coll...icants/products/euro-passenger-car-engine-oil

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

That's not the "euro" line, that's the "no vii euro".

I'm referring to the "euro passenger car":
https://www.advlubrication.com/coll...icants/products/euro-passenger-car-engine-oil

For some Euro requirements (like ACEA C3/C5, MB 229.51, Porsche C20/C30), that may be true, but considering between No VII Euro & Euro PC, one can get 0w20, 5w20, 10w20, 5w30, 10w30, and 5w40 that satisfies:
1. VW 502 00/505 00, Porsche A40, ACEA A3/B4, API SL, Daimler MB 229.3/229.5, Renault RN0700/0710, Volvo 95200356; or,
2. VW 502 00/505 00, Porsche A40, ACEA A3/B4, API SN/CF, Daimler MB 229.5/226.5, Renault RN0700/0710, PSA (2018) B71 2296 - 5W-40
…. That’s a whole lot of Euro add packs with high moly.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

Bumping this request for @High Performance Lubricants

Even the 30wt oil from H.P.L. is a very good choice when it comes to GDI-T engines with frequent dilution

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Bumping this request for @High Performance Lubricants

A better bet especially during racing seasons is to ask @HPL Plant Manager for the data. Their website is his realm as well AFAIK

 

[HPL Plant Manager]

Yes, adding the 10W-40 euro No VII oil to our data sheet is a top priority and will be done soon. The formulation has been finalized, and we’ve already seen a strong response with product sold to date.

We originally made the 10W-40 Euro No VII for the EcoDiesel folks, as they were requesting this viscosity. I agreed to make it and carry it in only 12x1 quart cases as I was unsure of how well it would sell and did not want to inventory the gallon cases or pails. You will notice on the web store it is listed as unavailable for all other packaging sizes and the non-euro version.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Yes, adding the 10W-40 euro No VII oil to our data sheet is a top priority and will be done soon. The formulation has been finalized, and we’ve already seen a strong response with product sold to date.

We originally made the 10W-40 Euro No VII for the EcoDiesel folks, as they were requesting this viscosity. I agreed to make it and carry it in only 12x1 quart cases as I was unsure of how well it would sell and did not want to inventory the gallon cases or pails. You will notice on the web store it is listed as unavailable for all other packaging sizes and the non-euro version.

Thanks David!

 

[hemioiler]

For some Euro requirements (like ACEA C3/C5, MB 229.51, Porsche C20/C30), that may be true, but considering between No VII Euro & Euro PC, one can get 0w20, 5w20, 10w20, 5w30, 10w30, and 5w40 that satisfies:
1. VW 502 00/505 00, Porsche A40, ACEA A3/B4, API SL, Daimler MB 229.3/229.5, Renault RN0700/0710, Volvo 95200356; or,
2. VW 502 00/505 00, Porsche A40, ACEA A3/B4, API SN/CF, Daimler MB 229.5/226.5, Renault RN0700/0710, PSA (2018) B71 2296 - 5W-40
…. That’s a whole lot of Euro add packs with high moly.

HPL Euro Passenger car doesn't have any moly except for (I believe) the 5w-40 which is basically super car 5w-40 in the Euro bottle.

 

[TiGeo]

HPL Euro Passenger car doesn't have any moly except for (I believe) the 5w-40 which is basically super car 5w-40 in the Euro bottle.

Can confirm - Euro 5W40 = Supercar 5W40 = lots of moly.

 

[Motor oil rookie]

I see, so this is what you were talking about, no VII oils @JAG
Going to their website to see if I find a 0W-20