High Performance Lubricants No VII series engine oils.

[The Critic]

How do you know? Do you poses intimate knowledge of how Red Line is formulated?

Fundamentally, it does not make sense for new oil to already be oxidized.

That's not accurate. The amount of ester content cannot be determined by the virgin oxidation number, if that's what you're referring to. Maybe @MolaKule could chime in on this.

I did not state that FTIR was an accurate way of determining the exact quantity of ester. I simply stated that ester content can be reflected in the oxidation value of a VOA. Molakule already discussed the matter in this thread:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...d-oxidation-abs-cm-on-virgin-analysis.312548/

I know you don't. It's okay.

Out of respect for HPL, maybe you should start a new thread on your Redline "findings."

 

[jackjoachim]

Will there be premium or premium plus versions of this new oil? Sorry if this has been discussed previously.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Out of respect for HPL, maybe you should start a new thread on your Redline "findings."

Out of respect for you, I replied to your questions about my counter example.

It was just meant as a counter example as to why NOACK isn't everything, and not an elaborate discussion about Red Line HP 5W-30.

I already dropped the subject when I said: "It's okay".

Now, please stop.

Will there be premium or premium plus versions of this new oil? Sorry if this has been discussed previously.

As I understand it, the lubricants offered in the no-VII product line are already top shelf - you can think of them as "Premium Plus".

 

[Brian123]

What's the NOACK number you'd like to see?

Unfortunately NOACK isn't everything when it comes to a finished product. I ran Red Line 5W-30 (advertised NOACK of 6%) in a 3.3L GDI engine. I ran it for 6800 miles. Towards the end of the OCI it started consuming oil and it was pretty badly oxidized. I don't have the patience to do UOAs, and since I wasn't planning on running Red Line again, I didn't take a sample. However, the moral of the story is that the advertised low NOACK of Red Line didn't help me at all. And this isn't a vehicle I short tripped either. I drive it with a decently heavy foot, so fuel dilution was at a bare minimum. Apparently that 6% NOACK didn't hold for the entirety of the OCI, as I was planning to go 7500~8000 miles. However, I lost nearly a quart of oil. When that happens with expensive motor oil, I don't care to use it again.

Currently, I'm running six quarts of Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 and a quart of HPL EC30 in the 3.3L GDI. So far, so good.

The quality of the finished product is everything.

Also, given that 3rd party labs can easily perform a NOACK test, for a fee, I'm confident that Mr. Ward is not withholding this data, but rather believes that it's not of major importance in the context of HPL's blending efforts and their use of high quality materials. Conclusively, any customer that purchases HPL products can have the oil analized.

Did your car start consuming oil before or after 5000 miles on the 6800 mile OCI? Was this car driven like an old man or like someone who stole it?

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Did your car start consuming oil before or after 5000 miles on the 6800 mile OCI? Was this car driven like an old man or like someone who stole it?

After about 5000 miles, which is somewhat weird. I check the oil pretty regularly. I don't drive the vehicle in an abusive manner, but don't baby it either, if that makes sense.

 

[Cujet]

Cold temperature performance matters to some of us

So, Pour Point of PCMO 5W-20 "No VII" being higher (-38°F) than the 5W-30 (-76°F) is an automatic fail for me.

Interesting that the "pour point" for the 5W-20 is that high. Wonder if it's an AN base stock, which would naturally have a pour point around there.

 

[Brian123]

After about 5000 miles, which is somewhat weird. I check the oil pretty regularly. I don't drive the vehicle in an abusive manner, but don't baby it either, if that makes sense.

It seems that Redline is not a long drain oil or it could be that the way you drive your car 5000 miles is it for the oil. I have also noticed that my oil usage goes up after 3000 miles or so into my 5000 mile OCI. All you can do is try other oils and see what works 4 you.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

It seems that Redline is not a long drain oil or it could be that the way you drive your car 5000 miles is it for the oil. I have also noticed that my oil usage goes up after 3000 miles or so into my 5000 mile OCI. All you can do is try other oils and see what works 4 you.

It's running Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 with HPL EC30 engine cleaner, so I see HPL PCMO 5W-40 in the future of this engine. Never had any oil consumption issues running any other oils, not even the dreaded dealer bulk in this engine.

 

[Brian123]

It's running Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 with HPL EC30 engine cleaner, so I see HPL PCMO 5W-40 in the future of this engine. Never had any oil consumption issues running any other oils, not even the dreaded dealer bulk in this engine.

Some engines like certain oils or they just might not like certain oils.

 

[ZeeOSix]

What's the NOACK number you'd like to see?

I'd like to know what they are to see how a no-VII formulation measures to the other formulations. I went to HPL's website and can't look at any of their specs on any of their oils. When you click on the "Products Data Sheets" link at the bottom of the page is wants you to log-in. @High Performance Lubricants - bug on your website?

 

[TiGeo]

I'd like to know what they are to see how a no-VII formulation measures to the other formulations. I went to HPL's website and can't look at any of their specs on any of their oils. When you click on the "Products Data Sheets" link at the bottom of the page is wants you to log-in. @High Performance Lubricants - bug on your website?

You can find them on their sale site - https://www.advlubrication.com/

 

[ZeeOSix]

I ran Red Line 5W-30 (advertised NOACK of 6%) in a 3.3L GDI engine. I ran it for 6800 miles. Towards the end of the OCI it started consuming oil and it was pretty badly oxidized. I don't have the patience to do UOAs ...
.
.
It thickened and was dark brown.

That was your "UOA"? Without a real UOA it's all a guess by looking at the color of the oil.

 

[ZeeOSix]

You can find them on their sale site - https://www.advlubrication.com/

^^^ Thanks TiGeo.

I don't see any Noack specs on any of the PCMOs. I know it's "not everything", and never claimed it ever was on this site ... but it's always good to know, at least it's something I like to look at.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

I don't think those are scientifically valid methods of determining oxidation.

neither would be if it was like tar, but wouldnt you think you needed a change?

 

[Davejam]

I think there is a correct line of logic here that Viscosity index improvers are the main cause of high NOACK and since they are not used here, it is safe to say that it should be as low as conceivably possible.

But correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Will there be premium or premium plus versions of this new oil? Sorry if this has been discussed previously.

There’s no need for a “premium” version. This is the ultimate No-VII formula; I don’t want to speak for Dave but from what I’ve learned this is essentially on par with the SuperCar line.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Interesting that the "pour point" for the 5W-20 is that high. Wonder if it's an AN base stock, which would naturally have a pour point around there.

The 5w20 is Group III plus other stuff; the 5w30 Euro and PCMO are PAO/POE.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Just my opinion, but if NOACK is a thing that is a standard, then whether or not the manufacturer thinks it is needed is irrelevant to the comsumer. That is one thing that I dont like about Valvoline, on their site, they say

Regular engine oils like Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 and Mobil 1 0W-20 have NOACK values of around 8%, yet neither Pennzoil, nor Mobil boast about these numbers on their websites. This information can be found on the PQIA website. Even Valvoline isn't that bad these days.

I would say evaporative loss is important to a DI engine where the valves are not washed by fuel.

As to the importance of NOACK to GDI engines, that's debatable because it depends what the oil mist that gets into the intake manifold consists off. Some of that oil mist might actually clean the intake valves.

"We use good stuff, so NOACK should be good" is not good enough for me. You cant pick and choose.

No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. There are several brand of motor oil to choose from. Have you purchased any HPL products? I have.

Many things about GDI and T-GDI engines are overblown out of proportion. And it's even funnier because the people who are overly concerned about LSPI and IVDs either don't own a GDI engine, or theirs doesn't have these issues, especially LSPI. There is actually a very small number of engines that have LSPI issues, and those are small displacement turbo charged GDI engines that were excessively tuned for fuel economy.

 

[TiGeo]

^^^ Thanks TiGeo.

I don't see any Noack specs on any of the PCMOs. I know it's "not everything", and never claimed it ever was on this site ... but it's always good to know, at least it's something I like to look at.

I believe this has been discussed at some point before - HPL doesn't do it for any of their oils.

 

[Brian123]

The 5w20 is Group III plus other stuff; the 5w30 Euro and PCMO are PAO/POE.

Sure about that?