I am just now learning some basic chemistry in relation to esters, solvents, and such. Is there some specific concern about combining the two, or more of a general sense of “no real benefit, potential harm” ?
High Performance Lubricants Engine Cleaner
- Thread starter High Performance Lubricants
- Start date
Best to reach out to HPL. Too many people around here are just guessing.
We don't know the exact chemistry behind Valvoline's R&P. They're very tight-lipped about it. (understandably so) I would be concerned about cleaning too much too quickly if the engine has a lot of sludge. HPL's oils clean more aggressively than the EC. The EC is meant to be used in transition to HPL's regular oils, providing a slower cleaning action to eliminate looser deposits before the more aggressive oils are used.
I can’t talk to specific chemistry’s. There have been many articles/warnings about additive clash. So I try to keep things simple and not mix.
I agree, it’s probably better not to mix them for now since Valvoline Restore and Protect chemistry is a mystery (even though EC can seemingly be run with any other oil under the sun?) but because nearly all my cars have 6qt sumps it’s just so tempting to toss in a 5 qt jug of Valvoline Restore and Protect + 1 qt EC 
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2023
- Messages
- 1,647
It’s kind of funny to me how we can be cavalier about doing extended drain intervals using off the shelf oils, which we know increase chances of deposits, and yet be timid about cleaning.
I just did 1 quart to 7 quarts in Range Rover.
Vehicle has 34k miles and has never gone more than ~4k miles without an oil change so I guess this more a “feel good” quick clean.
I will not be switching to HPL on this vehicle after this because I use FCP’s “warranty” for oil on this vehicle. Using Motul 0w30 Eco Clean with good used oil analysis.
I’ve reached out to HPL to see what should be my max interval on this run, given the situation I would imagine it’s not going to overwhelm the oil filter like on higher mileage cars.
Vehicle has 34k miles and has never gone more than ~4k miles without an oil change so I guess this more a “feel good” quick clean.
I will not be switching to HPL on this vehicle after this because I use FCP’s “warranty” for oil on this vehicle. Using Motul 0w30 Eco Clean with good used oil analysis.
I’ve reached out to HPL to see what should be my max interval on this run, given the situation I would imagine it’s not going to overwhelm the oil filter like on higher mileage cars.
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2026
- Messages
- 148
I agree. Most people on this site are wimps and do not even explore even cautiously. If you add something like Schaeffer's 131 or Lube Control or the like at 1oz per quart and do not get results the logical thing is to try 1.5oz per quart next time and keep pushing the dose until you either get the desired outcome or see wear metals increase on UOA etc.....If you keep pushing and you never see wear metals climb or any other negative at say 4X the starting treat rate......or you use the recomended treat rate every oil change for 20+ years and all of your seals are origanal and you have a clean engine with low wear metals than what is the fuss?
Most people are driven by fear and not exploration or seeking truth! They want to have their say but they never really want to do anything to earn it besides tell everyone the sky is falling and do what the owners manual recomends which is essential nothing today! LOL
I am likely the only person on this site that has tried 2 quarts of HPL Engine Cleaner to 4.5 of Valvoline Restore and Protect. Not once but twice. Adding the HPL Engine Cleaner to Valvoline Restore and Protect was recomended by Dave at Advanced Lubricants. I have the email I hope still? I tried HPL Engine Cleaner 6 times before at the recomended dose and got nothing out of it but a lighter wallet. It worked fantasticly at double the dose and added to Valvoline Restore and Protect.
Spending money and getting no result at all is a waste of money! The only thing that matters is results everything else is idle chatter or profane or meaningless take your pick! The people on this sight seem to have forgotten the idea of getting a result and a product having utility.
Everyone is so sure their engine is going to self destruct or seals will melt like crayons if they are not insanely cuatious.
You start off life struggling to count on your fingers and by the time your 20 you can do Calculas. Starting cautiously and building slowly makes perfect sense but seldom do you see that on this site. Standards are great, the book is great, but they are the begining of learning and knowledge not the end of it which is the problem with many.
With Todays post Covid-19 prices on cars and trucks not all of us have the luxury anymore of starting out with a new vechile that has not been abused yes modern OEM recomendations are abuse. We turn to sites like this to get results as much as we do comrader(sp). If results are not forthcoming what good are the experts? It is easy to maintain a new vechile! It is everyone else that needs help.
What engine? How can you quantify that it worked great at a double dose rate?
I run Valvoline Restore and Protect exclusively in a number of different high mileage engines and have been going back and forth whether to bother using HPL-EC. I could maybe try a double dose in the Northstar since it has a 7.5 qt sump.
4wd
$50 site donor 2026
CleanSump
Site Donor 2026
Why not just do as the manufacturer instructed since they formulated and tested the product instead of making up a feel good, off the top of my head, non-science based exercise?
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2026
- Messages
- 148
I had previously used it at the recomended dose in a used but new to me 2015 Toyota HighLander(2GRFE V6) that had 90K-ish miles on it when I bought it. It had been serviced at dealership with every 5K miles with 10K mile oil changes with TGMO for 60K miles then at a FireStone Service Facility also at 10K miles but no mentionof the type of oil used. No sludge in engine but the varnish was at least as thick as 2 business cards stacked. Thick hard and similar translucence as a dark brown beer bottle in this case it was an orange-brown or red-brown color.
When used at the offical recomended treat rate with Mobil 1 0W40 or Restore and Protect my oil filters looked prestine as if the engine where factory clean. Oils looked like new on dipstick until 3500-4000 miles before darkening. At double the dose with Restore and Protect the oil was very dark like 5000 miles dark by 1500 miles matching the color of the varnish build up. The oil was thicker by 1500 miles than it should be and was sticky between fingers. The oil filters looked filthy, where sticky, they smelled bad and so did the oil. The oil filter looked as if someone dropped 4 grams of graphite or MO2 loaded with black grit trapped in the filter media. The reuseable filter housing parts that come clean easy with a short spray of break cleaner took half a can and a bunch of blue shop towels to get clean because the residue was so tacky it did not want to easily clean up with out some towels and elbow grease.
As soon as it stops either raining to the point everything is flooding and 70 out and then snowing and 47 outside I plan on popping the front valve cover off. I have to work outside and at 53 I am not working in hard rain or snow just for for curiosity. THe valve covers are not leaking which is why I am only doing the front one which is super easy to reach and do just for kicks and giggles. When I did the spark plugs not having ever worked on a transverse mounted Toyota V6 it took me most of the day that back bank was tricky for an old tall fat guy like me!! LOL
4wd
$50 site donor 2026
I have alternated the two popular “cleaning” methods - cut up a bunch of filters with nothing to show. Did that mean they don’t work - or the engine was already clean?
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2026
- Messages
- 148
I think most peoples concerns are that we know it has esters in it but we do not know how much or what esters are being used. Some people worry about seal shrinkage. Esters are used so sparingly in most fully formulated oils though today that it is a non-issue. It is not like the Golden days of Amsoil where it was basicly 2 diesters and the additive package. NEO Oil was likewise all diesters plus additive package. Mobil-1 was PAO+Ester+ additive package+ mineral oil but none of that is true today.
Today 95% of stuff is GTL, GIII, II+, PAO and AN. I think you have to get into oils sold in S. America before you get back to Group 1 oils. Outise of Red Line in the USA I am not aware of anyone using more than what 2% ester if your lucky? Lack of natural solvency and polarity amoung modern oils is a real problem in mind given the longer and longer OCI and the power densities modern engines are running. I have never heard of anyone running Red Line long term having seal shrinkage issues. Ihave used ester products like Schaeffers 131 for almost 30 years and never had an engine seal fail front or rear main seal fail using it. I have had some 17+ year ld cars that needed to have valve cover gasket replaced but that is normal. Used Auto-RX, Red Line oil, Amsoil's older Diester formulas etc....Never an issue.
Caution is great but only until it get's in the way of progress. It is especially bad when it is unwarranted and just doom and gloom worry for worry sake. My mom always had unreasonable irrational levels of fear and worry that no normal and sane person would think of and worry about. I love that women with all of my being but her worry has held her back in life and it tried to hold me back in a very very negative way as a child.
So risk is good but we want to mitigate disaster with some judgment and due deligence. Caution is not meant to paralyze one or stop one from living, exploring, and trying new things and I think people on this site lean too much into "The Sky is Falling" narrative with no real reason for such beliefs. No one on this sight has ever had an engine fail or even had a bad UOA from Lube Control, Auto-RX, Schaeffers 131, Risolene, MMO, Red Line Engine Break In Addive or any number of other additives. We have seen some additives though produce a less than ideal UOA or seen real world cause and effect like Restore and Lucas Oil Stablizer.
Then you have all of those people on this sight fortuanate enough to own a vechile from new that has no issues to fix and well no need to try anything additive related. If it aint broke why fix it does make sense in many cases. Then you have all the people that lease or only own for 3-5 years and trade in again. Makes sense to leave well enough alone!
Today 95% of stuff is GTL, GIII, II+, PAO and AN. I think you have to get into oils sold in S. America before you get back to Group 1 oils. Outise of Red Line in the USA I am not aware of anyone using more than what 2% ester if your lucky? Lack of natural solvency and polarity amoung modern oils is a real problem in mind given the longer and longer OCI and the power densities modern engines are running. I have never heard of anyone running Red Line long term having seal shrinkage issues. Ihave used ester products like Schaeffers 131 for almost 30 years and never had an engine seal fail front or rear main seal fail using it. I have had some 17+ year ld cars that needed to have valve cover gasket replaced but that is normal. Used Auto-RX, Red Line oil, Amsoil's older Diester formulas etc....Never an issue.
Caution is great but only until it get's in the way of progress. It is especially bad when it is unwarranted and just doom and gloom worry for worry sake. My mom always had unreasonable irrational levels of fear and worry that no normal and sane person would think of and worry about. I love that women with all of my being but her worry has held her back in life and it tried to hold me back in a very very negative way as a child.
So risk is good but we want to mitigate disaster with some judgment and due deligence. Caution is not meant to paralyze one or stop one from living, exploring, and trying new things and I think people on this site lean too much into "The Sky is Falling" narrative with no real reason for such beliefs. No one on this sight has ever had an engine fail or even had a bad UOA from Lube Control, Auto-RX, Schaeffers 131, Risolene, MMO, Red Line Engine Break In Addive or any number of other additives. We have seen some additives though produce a less than ideal UOA or seen real world cause and effect like Restore and Lucas Oil Stablizer.
Then you have all of those people on this sight fortuanate enough to own a vechile from new that has no issues to fix and well no need to try anything additive related. If it aint broke why fix it does make sense in many cases. Then you have all the people that lease or only own for 3-5 years and trade in again. Makes sense to leave well enough alone!
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked