Here's where the semanitcs and spin come in !

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Shannow

Shannow

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http://www.salon.com/2013/01/07/conservatives_demand_hammer_control/
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Yes, assault rifles are used in a tiny fraction of guns crimes, about 2 to 8 percent, but petty crime was never the main target of the Assault Weapon Ban. Rather, it’s designed to stop mass shootings, where rifles are vastly overrepresented. Rifles or assault rifles were used to kill John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King, and were deployed in the the Beltway sniper attacks, the Columbine massacre, the Aurora movie theater attack, the Oregon shooting in December, the Sandy Hook spree and countless other massacres.
Doesn't have to be anything to do with an "Assualt Weapon", as I said in the other thread, when you start to draw on the "like an assault weapon" distinction to start banning stuff. Now "rifles" are the problem...when rifles, single shot,and up to three rounds, are the solution to the problem in another version of the same argument. Author failed to mention that the very next mass killing from the gun ban was the torching of a hostel, by a deranged person, killing 15...
 
Shannow, There won't be another round of assault rifle bans in the U.S., not in our lifetime anyway. They will take on a license system like our FAC system but on a more national level to prevent cross border shopping. The first ban, that happened in 1994 I believe, had no beneficial effects at all. The Americans are pretty much worried about a dictatorship taking hold which pretty much follows the spirit of the Charter anyway, so no big deal. If people say that a dictatorship can't happen, look closely at China, Syria, ... ... .... North Korea, RUSSIA. There are very few "free" people on this planet, and if takes a few missteps and a sensible system of making sure someone isn't a lunatic from obtaining firearms, that is about all you can really do. Don't trust a regime that doesn't trust your guns. Even our PM Harper is a PM like no other we have ever had, and he scrapped our multi-multi billion dollar registry. So really, this is just a matter of not-so-common sense.
 
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moreso re the title, it's marginalisation through "educating the uneducated" with sound-bites and what not. in the article, the pretty well debunked "assault weapons", becomes assault rifles, then a "rifle" killed JFK, and the mantra down here became "snipers" use rifles to kill people at 2,500 yards... they become lunchroom conversation pieces.. Why does anyone need a rifle, a rifle that can kill at 2,500, 1,000, 500, or 300 yards, when it's for defence ? Why does an "ethical hunter" (their italics) need more than a single shot ? You can't argue against mass fed nonsense.
 
This stuff is all so predictable. Even before the bodies were counted in Sandy Hook, news anchors were advocating for more gun control.
 
It isn't about gun control. It never is. It's about CONTROL. You can't fully control a country as long as the populace is armed. The quest for power never stops, from whichever side of the political extreme it comes. Free men have fought the fight against slavery and oppression countless times, and it will never end. Comfort and complacency make us think it will SURELY not happen in our country, but it's historically inevitable that it will again, someday. I'm a minute man of the Old Tradition. I train my sons and daughters in this tradition, as I was trained by my father. However many generations it may be before we are again needed, we will be at the ready on that day. I just hope for the sake of the freedom loving people of that time there will be enough of us still prepared to do our duty.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr_Incredible
It isn't about gun control. It never is. It's about CONTROL. You can't fully control a country as long as the populace is armed. The quest for power never stops, from whichever side of the political extreme it comes. Free men have fought the fight against slavery and oppression countless times, and it will never end. Comfort and complacency make us think it will SURELY not happen in our country, but it's historically inevitable that it will again, someday. I'm a minute man of the Old Tradition. I train my sons and daughters in this tradition, as I was trained by my father. However many generations it may be before we are again needed, we will be at the ready on that day. I just hope for the sake of the freedom loving people of that time there will be enough of us still prepared to do our duty.
+1 The morons writing for a dripping lefty paper south of here described a "flash supressor " (and we ALL know THEY are found on 'assault type weapon gun horrible things' )as something used to "cool the barrel" presumably while you are mowing down innocents. Gibbering idiots making public opinion. They also say that you "push" the trigger. Only trigger I have seen which worked that way was on a Browning .50. (a FINE weapon, BTW) smile
 
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That was a really good article. It is nice to be able to read something without a major spin either way. Articles like that help the general population of voters to make an informed decision about how to tackle the violent crime problem that is plaguing the US right now.
 
Yamamoto, the famous Japanese Admiral in WWII, who spent some time in the US, is quoted as saying he feared invading the West Coast because "There would be a rifleman behind every blade of grass", a class of citizen far removed from the FIVE MILLION Stalin killed just prior to WWII because they were "politically inconvenient".
 
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Gabe, there are many thousands of laws to control guns, but the violent crime problem is still there. It isn't a gun problem, it's a violence problem. Or a crazy people problem. Or a problem with fatherless households and children with no hope or direction, without morals, without judgement or training to be a good citizen. As Americans, we've always had guns and they weren't problems. Of course, they still aren't the problem. The violence is the problem, regardless of the weapons used to do it.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr_Incredible
Gabe, there are many thousands of laws to control guns, but the violent crime problem is still there. It isn't a gun problem, it's a violence problem. Or a crazy people problem. Or a problem with fatherless households and children with no hope or direction, without morals, without judgement or training to be a good citizen. As Americans, we've always had guns and they weren't problems. Of course, they still aren't the problem. The violence is the problem, regardless of the weapons used to do it.
And after guns, then what, diesel and plant food?
 
I am more concerned about the stellar rise in gun sales after recent incidents. It means that there will be many more guns out there to injure the stupid and be used by the crazies. Somehow, I doubt that all this panic buying is being done by responsible, experienced gun owners. Since an unloaded gun locked in a cabinet or safe is useless in the event of an emergency many of them will be kept near at hand and loaded. You see where I am going with this? I am neither supporting nor disparaging gun ownership, just making a statement. A number of new guns out there will eventually supply many more Adam Lanzas. (He used his mother's legal guns.)
 
Originally Posted By: Mr_Incredible
Gabe, there are many thousands of laws to control guns, but the violent crime problem is still there. It isn't a gun problem, it's a violence problem. Or a crazy people problem. Or a problem with fatherless households and children with no hope or direction, without morals, without judgement or training to be a good citizen. As Americans, we've always had guns and they weren't problems. Of course, they still aren't the problem. The violence is the problem, regardless of the weapons used to do it.
I didn't say anything about gun control. In fact, I specifically used the phrase 'violent crime problem' to avoid any of this confusion. Of course I agree with you on broken homes and poor judgements role in violent crimes. But, on that hand, we cannot lock up unwed pregnant mothers for what their children are statistically more inclined to do. These are tough issues with no clear solutions. The better informed the public - and public officials - are the better decisions we can make.
 
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I am more concerned about the stellar rise in gun sales after recent incidents. It means that there will be many more guns out there to injure the stupid and be used by the crazies. Somehow, I doubt that all this panic buying is being done by responsible, experienced gun owners. Since an unloaded gun locked in a cabinet or safe is useless in the event of an emergency many of them will be kept near at hand and loaded. You see where I am going with this? I am neither supporting nor disparaging gun ownership, just making a statement. A number of new guns out there will eventually supply many more Adam Lanzas. (He used his mother's legal guns.)
^^ Post of the week!!
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Yamamoto, the famous Japanese Admiral in WWII, who spent some time in the US, is quoted as saying he feared invading the West Coast because "There would be a rifleman behind every blade of grass", a class of citizen far removed from the FIVE MILLION Stalin killed just prior to WWII because they were "politically inconvenient".
There doesn't appear to be any evidence that Yamamoto actually said this, although he did study in the United States and was familiar with the culture.
 
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I am more concerned about the stellar rise in gun sales after recent incidents. It means that there will be many more guns out there to injure the stupid and be used by the crazies. Somehow, I doubt that all this panic buying is being done by responsible, experienced gun owners. Since an unloaded gun locked in a cabinet or safe is useless in the event of an emergency many of them will be kept near at hand and loaded. You see where I am going with this? I am neither supporting nor disparaging gun ownership, just making a statement. A number of new guns out there will eventually supply many more Adam Lanzas. (He used his mother's legal guns.)
JHZR2 has used the statistic of 200K gun thefts annually in the now closed threads, a figure I found dubious. It appears that even though gun sales are skyrocketing, thefts of firearms are actually declining. According to this DOJ publication, it was 150,000 in 2010, down from almost 300,000 in 1994, and has been averaging about 150,000 for the last decade, although a one time spike in 2009 would distort the statistics if you look at a shorter time frame. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/fshbopc0510.pdf So, even though 150K is a big number and should be improved on, this bit of evidence suggests that increased gun sales does not lead to increased thefts of firearms. Facts are always more useful for decision making than feelings or thoughts, in my opinion.
 
If you have a problem and call 911 the police will typically arrive in 23 minutes and investigate a crime or homicide and fill out a report. A 125 grain hollow point gets there at 1400 feet per second from a .357
 
Facts rule, yes. But, I am not talking about gun thefts. I am talking about people reselling them later or simply having them taken by a friend or family member who knows they are unsecured. Adam Lanza did not have to "steal" his mother's guns. I will not back up my opinions here with any facts. I just KNOW that there will be future incidents. It doesn't take a psychic or rocket scientist to foresee that.
 
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Facts rule, yes. ..... Adam Lanza did not have to "steal" his mother's guns. .....
We don't know if this is fact, or not. Both parties to the event are dead. Of course there will be future incidents. If firearms are completely banned, there will be future incidents with firearms. Suggesting that the increase in sales will lead to many more incidents is sheer speculation.
 
Originally Posted By: Win
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Facts rule, yes. ..... Adam Lanza did not have to "steal" his mother's guns. .....
We don't know if this is fact, or not. Both parties to the event are dead.
Sometimes in life, you have to use common sense. I doubt Adam's mother said "Take my guns; shoot me; shoot my friends; kill yourself."
 
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I agree with you that it is highly likely that Lanza's first crime was stealing those weapons from his mother. DBMaaster is suggesting otherwise.
 
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