This could get interesting

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http://www.gunnuts.net/2014/09/29/jan-morgan-idiot-bigot-or-both/ She's apparently removed her blog post so I wonder if she'll see this through. But here are two versions of her blog post: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://janmorganmedia.com/2014/09/business-muslim-free-zone/ http://web.archive.org/web/20140929170104/http://janmorganmedia.com/2014/09/business-muslim-free-zone/
Originally Posted By: Google Cache Version
The Gun Cave Indoor Shooting Range is now a a MUSLIM FREE ZONE. To understand why I arrived at this decision, you must first take in to consideration the nature of my business. This is not a coffee and donut shop. This is a live fire indoor shooting range. People come here to buy, rent, and shoot lethal weapons. In the range, people are shooting guns in close proximity to each other, so my patrons depend on me and my discretion regarding who I allow to shoot beside them. One mistake in judgement on my part could cost innocent people their lives. The primary reasons I do not want muslims shooting at my range are listed: 1) The Koran (which I have read and studied thoroughly) and (which all muslims align themselves with), contains 109 verses commanding hate, murder and terror against all human beings who refuse to submit or convert to Islam. Read those verses of violence here. 2) My life has been threatened repeatedly by muslims in response to my publication of those verses from their Koran. Why would I want to rent or sell a gun and hand ammunition to someone who aligns himself with a religion that commands him to kill me? 3) * The barbaric act of beheading an innocent American in Oklahoma by a muslim * the Boston bombings(by muslims) * the Foot Hood mass shooting (by a muslim) that killed 13 people and injured over 30 people * and the murder of 3000 innocent people (by muslims) on 9/11 This is more than enough loss of life on my home soil at the hands of muslims to substantiate my position that muslims can and may follow the directives in their Koran and kill here at home. 4) Two muslims walked in to my range last week with [censored] akbar ring tone and message alert tones on their smart phones. They spoke very little english, one did not have proof of U.S. citizenship, yet they wanted to rent and shoot guns. Their behavior was so strange, it was unnerving to my patrons. No one would enter the range to shoot while they were there. Some of my customers left. (can you blame them?) 5) * Muslims, who belong to and, or, support ISIS, are threatening to kill innocent Americans. * Muslims, who belong to or support AL Qaeda, are threatening to kill innocent Americans. * Muslims who belong to or support HAMAS are threatening to kill innocent Americans. See a common thread here? 6) I have a federal firearms licence… The ATF informed us when we received the license that if we feel any reason for concern about selling someone a firearm, even sense that something is not right about an individual, or if we are concerned about that persons mental state, even if they pass a background check, we do not have to sell that person a gun. In other words, a federal agency has given us this kind of discretion for service based on the nature of the business. I can and have turned people away if I sense an issue with their mental state. 7) I understand that not all muslims are terrorists. I also believe there are as many Muslims who do not know what is in their Koran as there are Christians who do not know what is in their Bible. Since I have no way of discerning which muslims will or will not kill in the name of their religion and the commands in their koran…I choose to err on the side of caution for the safety of my patrons. 8) On the issue of religious discrimination: I view Islam as a theocracy, not a religion. Islam is the union of political, legal, and religious ideologies. In other words, law, religion and state are forged together to form what Muslims refer to as “The Nation of Islam.” It is given the sovereign qualities of a nation with clerics in the governing body and Sharia law all in one. This is a Theocracy, not a religion. The US Constitution does not protect a theocracy. The 1st Amendment is very specific about protecting the rights of individuals from the government, as it concerns the practice of religions, not theocracies. It clearly differentiates between government and religion. Again protecting the individual’s religious beliefs and practices from (the state) government. In Islam religion and state are one. We are a Nation governed by laws, the U.S. Constitution. We are not a Nation that is governed by religion, politicians or clerics. How then can Islam be protected by the U.S. Constitution? 9) Islam allows Muslims to kill their own children, (honor killing) if the behavior of those children embarrasses or dishonors the family name. (which has already occurred on American soil) Why would I allow people (whose religion allows them to murder their own children), be in the presence of other children? My patrons often bring their kids to the range to teach them to shoot. I am responsible for providing a safe environment for those children to learn gun safety and shooting sports. 10) In the 14 hundred year history of Islam, muslims have murdered over 270 million people. Since 9/11 muslims have committed over 21 thousand deadly terror attacks world wide. In summary, people who shoot at my range come from all religious backgrounds… some are atheists… I do not care about their religious beliefs until or unless those beliefs command them to commit violent crimes against innocent people and I witness those crimes increasing, as we all have lately. If you had received death threats by muslims, would you want the government telling you that you had to allow them in to your home or business and hand them a loaded gun? I will do whatever is necessary to provide a safe environment for my customers, even at the cost of the increased threats and legal problems this decision will likely provoke. Jan Morgan- owner / The Gun Cave Indoor Shooting Range
 
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It won't stand up to scrutiny. But a lot of folks agree with her. I'm not saying that I do - I don't - but there are a lot who do.
 

MolaKule

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I agree with Ms Morgan and hope she continues to hold her ground. She has the right, as a private business owner, to refuse service to anyone. And her logic and knowledge of the Rule of Law, theocracies, and the Constitution is correct.
Quote:
The US Constitution does not protect a theocracy. The 1st Amendment is very specific about protecting the rights of individuals from the government, as it concerns the practice of religions, not theocracies. It clearly differentiates between government and religion. Again protecting the individual’s religious beliefs and practices from (the state) government. In Islam religion and state are one. We are a Nation governed by laws, the U.S. Constitution. We are not a Nation that is governed by religion, politicians or clerics. How then can Islam be protected by the U.S. Constitution?
 
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I have a novel concept. If you agree with her support her business. If you do not agree with her do not support her business. I disagree with her view on Koran without acknowledging the verses in the Bible in which GOD called for violence and believers being devote believers obliged.
 
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One day soon people in the US will experience the wrath of Islam in a personal way that the president and the media can not explain away. On that day the tide will change. I lived and worked among these people for 5 years and these two cultures, Islam and the rest of the world will never co-exist, ever. The only peace the world will ever see in when the western world decides to physical wipe out terrorism instead of playing politics. These "little wars" of "limited means" and crippling "rules-of-engagement" are a scandal. In war one is either "all-in" or "not-in". In war you bring everything, every day and never ever stop advancing. Peace comes when the terrorist can no longer shoot back because he's dead. The world is not a nice place and there is no such thing as a "gentleman's agreement".
 

MolaKule

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Originally Posted By: dave1251
I have a novel concept. If you agree with her support her business. If you do not agree with her do not support her business. I disagree with her view on Koran without acknowledging the verses in the Bible in which GOD called for violence and believers being devote believers obliged.
But where do see verses calling for the modern day annihilation and murder of different faiths and cultures?
 
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: dave1251
I have a novel concept. If you agree with her support her business. If you do not agree with her do not support her business. I disagree with her view on Koran without acknowledging the verses in the Bible in which GOD called for violence and believers being devote believers obliged.
But where do see verses calling for the modern day annihilation and murder of different faiths and cultures?
glenn beck and the AM radio hucksters.
 
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IMHO, her mistake was announcing "No Muslims Allowed." Someone will sue and she will lose because, well, I don't want to get a vacation so I won't say. A more subtle approach might have been to advertise "Free BLT's with every purchase."
 
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I'm unclear why people come to defend Islam. Regardless of what the Bible says, regardless of what the Koran says, people (LOTS OF PEOPLE) who claim to be Muslim are doing (TODAY) lots of horrible, horrible things in the name of their religion. I don't see how anything else is relevant in the discussion. The Bible isn't relevant, the Crusades aren't relevant. Muslims today, a lot of them, are violent, backwards, and not compatible with the modern world. Good for Jan.
 
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Originally Posted By: BowNisPar
I'm unclear why people come to defend Islam. Regardless of what the Bible says, regardless of what the Koran says, people (LOTS OF PEOPLE) who claim to be Muslim are doing (TODAY) lots of horrible, horrible things in the name of their religion. I don't see how anything else is relevant in the discussion. The Bible isn't relevant, the Crusades aren't relevant. Muslims today, a lot of them, are violent, backwards, and not compatible with the modern world. Good for Jan.
and a lot of christians are backwards and violent. and a lot of muslims are moderates and good people. does this really need to be explained to an adult??
 
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: dave1251
I have a novel concept. If you agree with her support her business. If you do not agree with her do not support her business. I disagree with her view on Koran without acknowledging the verses in the Bible in which GOD called for violence and believers being devote believers obliged.
But where do see verses calling for the modern day annihilation and murder of different faiths and cultures?
The issue is her assertion of a call to violence is unique to Islam. Evil people have and continue to use interpretation of scripture as a excuse for violence. I am sorry some of the scripture of the Koran used to justify killing by "Muslims" have caused me to believe that believers of that rubbish in particular are the byproduct of generations of Khat overdose.
 
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Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: dave1251
I have a novel concept. If you agree with her support her business. If you do not agree with her do not support her business. I disagree with her view on Koran without acknowledging the verses in the Bible in which GOD called for violence and believers being devote believers obliged.
But where do see verses calling for the modern day annihilation and murder of different faiths and cultures?
glenn beck and the AM radio hucksters.
This is a concept that may be hard for you to follow. No one needs you to answer questions not directed towards you.
 
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Originally Posted By: dave1251
This is a concept that may be hard for you to follow. No one needs you to answer questions not directed towards you.
oh, is this your message board now, maam?
 
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Public Accommodations and Facilities A town rents its community center to local groups for meetings, but refuses to rent it to a local Hindu group that wants to hold a Divali festival and a group that wants to hold a Christian music concert. The town tells both groups that it has a no-religious-activities policy at the center. Three Buddhist monks go out to a restaurant wearing robes, but the proprietor says "we don't allow religious clothes in here. Come back when you are dressed normally." These examples may be violations of federal law. Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits discrimination based on religion in public accommodations, such as restaurants, theaters, and hotels. Title III of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits discrimination based on religion in public facilities owned or operated by a state or local government. The Division's Housing and Civil Enforcement Section (contact information above) enforces these statutes and ensures that religious individuals and institutions have equal access to public facilities and accommodations. Further information is available at www.usdoj.gov/crt/housing.
 
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Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: BowNisPar
I'm unclear why people come to defend Islam. Regardless of what the Bible says, regardless of what the Koran says, people (LOTS OF PEOPLE) who claim to be Muslim are doing (TODAY) lots of horrible, horrible things in the name of their religion. I don't see how anything else is relevant in the discussion. The Bible isn't relevant, the Crusades aren't relevant. Muslims today, a lot of them, are violent, backwards, and not compatible with the modern world. Good for Jan.
and a lot of christians are backwards and violent. and a lot of muslims are moderates and good people. does this really need to be explained to an adult??
Where are all of these backward, violent Christians? What countries are they terrorizing? Where is their trail of beheaded women and children? What atrocities are they committing?
 

Apollo14

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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I agree with Ms Morgan and hope she continues to hold her ground. She has the right, as a private business owner, to refuse service to anyone. And her logic and knowledge of the Rule of Law, theocracies, and the Constitution is correct.
Quote:
The US Constitution does not protect a theocracy. The 1st Amendment is very specific about protecting the rights of individuals from the government, as it concerns the practice of religions, not theocracies. It clearly differentiates between government and religion. Again protecting the individual’s religious beliefs and practices from (the state) government. In Islam religion and state are one. We are a Nation governed by laws, the U.S. Constitution. We are not a Nation that is governed by religion, politicians or clerics. How then can Islam be protected by the U.S. Constitution?
A theocracy is a form of government that is based on a religion. While you would say that a country like Iran is a theocracy based on Islam, or the Vatican City is a theocracy based on Christianity you can't say that Islam or Christianity itself is a theocracy. By the logic she uses, you would have to say that Christianity is not a religion either. I think there is a reason she has taken down her blog post.
 
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