Heads are Rolling at VW

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It looks like VW will suffer a lost of up to $50-60 billions(yes, billion with a B) with this cheating. Their stock lost 32% for a value $30 billions as of yesterday. Combine it with potential fine by EPA and various Federal and state agencies it can easily reach $50 billion. Plus the cost of recall and the amount they have to compensate for 500,000 owners.

This is not counting fines from other countries. It is very clear that this scandal is extremely costly to VW.

The only people who will come out ahead are lawyers. I bet many law offices are busy looking for stock holders, TDI owners ... to file lawsuits. It is likely that there will be more than 1 class-action lawsuit against VW.
 
Originally Posted By: cjcride
So VW can change the Drivers Wanted to Leader Wanted.


Former leader Winterkorn was busy setting company goals & reading reports.
No matter how many times he might have repeatedly said to Johannes Arning and Thorsten Duesterdiek to avoid any problems that would cost the company billions of bucks, it might just fall on deaf ears.
But lets blame the leader. Why not? Accomplishes nothing.
 
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Originally Posted By: cjcride
So VW can change the Drivers Wanted to Leader Wanted.


Former leader Winterkorn was busy setting company goals & reading reports.
No matter how many times he might have repeatedly said to Johannes Arning and Thorsten Duesterdiek to avoid any problems that would cost the company billions of bucks, it might just fall on deaf ears.
But lets blame the leader. Why not? Accomplishes nothing.


Blaming Winterkorn doesn't clearly accomplish much but these leaders make the big bucks and with that the "buck stops there" at the CEOs door. Some of this is a transplanted horribly so American culture of
"cannot fail" and maximum profit, no matter what, and that is WRONG when it destroys the long term steady growth and health of the company. You can go back a number of decades or so and engineering was first and foremost at German auto manufacturers but today the last red cent mentality which infected German culture after WWII is now in full force.
 
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Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: CT8
I still an unhappy employee ratted VW out.


+1 agreed.......yet somehow I still get that warm feeling in my heart that some software guru got one over on the EPA.

The thought of it is actually brilliant. About 30 years ago TRW Aerospace got caught doing a similar ruse. Also brilliant...but one disgruntled employee called the FBI....after that TRW sold off the whole division.


I thought the same of my Ashley Madison account.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

The only people who will come out ahead are lawyers.


Well nobody should come out ahead. If you false start in a race you're disqualified. They dont say everyone else gets to go 5meters less ( aka some of your money).


All the carmakers who did not cheat end up come ahead in the future, through removal of the invalid party
Im sure theres some engineer at mercedes as well as sales guys saying finally I knew it.

As well as the fines being a deterrent for others not to cheat in the future.

There's also the environmental win. Maybe this is up for debate if they are ultimately the right laws, but at least the laws as written should be obeyed.
 
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Originally Posted By: raytseng


There's also the environmental win. Maybe this is up for debate if they are ultimately the right laws, but at least the laws as written should be obeyed.


Not really, as very few consumers factor in the elements of
diesel like lower cost to refine the product vs gasoline, and also that results in less energy expended as well, which goes into refining the product, energy that comes from most likely burning fossil fuels.

Also even those non compliant engines still are very clean even by gasoline engine standards of just a decade ago.

Bottom line is that VW broke the laws and will have to pay for it, the issue is why didn't the company hire experts and lawyers to lobby for different standards.
 
Emissions violations are nothing new. Many engine manufacturers have shipped product that didn't meet emissions requirements and had to pay fines and/or issue recalls.

For the most part, the whole emissions industry is just a giant power and money grab. Nothing of any real concern here. Moving on.

Example
 
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VW.com usa cleaned off many TDI references off the website. They no longer show up in searches nor in the spec sheets for their products. They likely also pulled the "Clean Diesel" references off.

Webmasters and programmers are quite busy!!!!

The local inventory went from 250 Golf SportWagens to 37 because you can no longer filter on TDI which was majority of product sold/available in my locale. My interest lies in trying an affordable wagon with manual and specifically gasoline since not a rip off $3k more tdi/lessor rear suspension to boot.
 
I think the EPA is out of control anyway. I don't see anything wrong with what Volkswagen has done.

I'd be happy if they got rid of that after treatment bullsnot.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I think the EPA is out of control anyway. I don't see anything wrong with what Volkswagen has done.

I'd be happy if they got rid of that after treatment bullsnot.

EPA enforces the emission laws passed by Congress and signed by President. They didn't make up their own laws/rules. The maximum fined per violation is the law too.

VW intentionally cheating emission control laws, they will be fined and someone may spend sometimes in jail for it, US Justice Dept opened criminal investigation about this problem. I will not be surprised when they announce some VW employees were indicted.
 
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I think having 1 software for all 2L TDI engines is easier to upgrade and repair if needed. I think if they have more than 1 software version then it will be hard to keep track which version for which market.

That why the potential problem is all 11 millions TDI engines are effected. With this many engines in many countries VW will be fined a lot of money and settle(or sued) with owners.

That why I posted yesterday VW may lost more than $50-60 billions from this cheating, the stock value alone went down $30 billions as of Wednesday, may be more as of today close.
 
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
http://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/vw%E2%80%99s-cheating-just-tip-iceberg

But for some models the gap is so large T&E suspects that the car is able to detect when it is tested using a “defeat device” and artificially lowers emissions during the test. For example [*]: a diesel Audi A8 tested in Europe produced nitrogen oxide emissions 21.9 times over the legal limit on the road; a BMW X3 diesel was 9.9 times over the limit on the road; an Opal Zafira Tourer, 9.5 times; Citroen C4 Picasso 5.1 times. All these vehicles passed the laboratory test.

In CO2 tests, on average almost every Mercedes model achieves levels on the road over 50% higher than the laboratory tests; the BMW 5 series and Peugeot 308 achieve just shy of 50% higher than in the lab. For virtually every new model that comes onto the market the gap between test and real-world performance leaps. With the launch of the VW Golf Mark VII the gap between test and real-world CO2 emissions jumped from 22% to 41%. The gap for the new Mercedes C Class rose from 37% to 53%; for the Renault Clio IV the gap almost doubled from 19% to 34%. These changes are unlikely to be caused solely by the increased use of test flexibilities – the more sinister and illegal defeat devices may also be in use and T&E has initiated a testing programme to demonstrate this as the US authorities have done to expose VW


US Authorities exposed nothing. It was the University of West Virginia.

http://wvutoday.wvu.edu/n/2015/09/24/wvu...swagen-vehicles
 
Originally Posted By: satinsilver
Down 30% since the news broke. Still above $100 per share.

http://fortune.com/2015/09/23/volkswagen-stock-drop/


I remember back when Ford stock was $1 a share in 2008. I should have bought $30,000 shares worth at $1/ share. 7 years later, it's $13.54 a share. I would have $406,200 today! I bet several got rich off of that stock.
 
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yes, but why should the EPA accuse any company publicly before that company gets a chance to rectify or explain any discrepancies?

I think the EPA has been very reasonable with VW, given them every chance to rectify the emissions results without damage in the public eye. VW chose not to disable the cheat device before they were forced to confess.
 
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