Down 30% since the news broke. Still above $100 per share.
http://fortune.com/2015/09/23/volkswagen-stock-drop/
http://fortune.com/2015/09/23/volkswagen-stock-drop/
Heads are Rolling at VW
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GM used to do "highway mode" 25 years ago that ran lean and made NOx. PROM hackers, among others, know about it:
http://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-prom/408964-highway-mode.html
http://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-prom/408964-highway-mode.html
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Ignorance is bliss if you're a rich CEO or vice-pres, right????
Generally speaking, how many automotive executives really know a lot about engineering, let alone the software side of things? There certainly are some who have a technical background. And there always is the notion that the boss should be able to do every job beneath him, but in something like the automotive industry, that's folly. Some executives probably have enough difficulty mastering their desktops, let alone understand the software in a vehicle.
Ignorance is bliss if you're a rich CEO or vice-pres, right????
Generally speaking, how many automotive executives really know a lot about engineering, let alone the software side of things? There certainly are some who have a technical background. And there always is the notion that the boss should be able to do every job beneath him, but in something like the automotive industry, that's folly. Some executives probably have enough difficulty mastering their desktops, let alone understand the software in a vehicle.
cars used to go open loop at full throttle to protect the engine and add fuel. I do not know if it was legal.
This is the sort of thing that us Good engineers will think of, and then get permission to implement or not. Usually i wanted a higher up to "steal" the idea just in case. There is a good Dilbert strip in here.
I strongly suspect that more than one exec at other companies is plotting his exit strategy.
Rod
This is the sort of thing that us Good engineers will think of, and then get permission to implement or not. Usually i wanted a higher up to "steal" the idea just in case. There is a good Dilbert strip in here.
I strongly suspect that more than one exec at other companies is plotting his exit strategy.
Rod
Actually the former CEO of VW Audi Group, Ferdinand Piech, would know something as he was a chief engineer before becoming involved in senior executive operations at the company.
I still think that somehow Piech is getting his pound of flesh for his being exiled by Winterkorn and his allies. The new CEO
Matthias Mueller, is well known to be an ally of Piech.
I can tell you that this war between these guys is more than just about business although unfortunately the company will suffer in the short term for their egos. I personally wish the board and shareholders would throw out any of these folks from having control of the company, it's disgraceful because it isn't about what is best for the executives or board, it is about what is best for the company as a whole. Disgraceful behavior from many of those at the top.
I still think that somehow Piech is getting his pound of flesh for his being exiled by Winterkorn and his allies. The new CEO
Matthias Mueller, is well known to be an ally of Piech.
I can tell you that this war between these guys is more than just about business although unfortunately the company will suffer in the short term for their egos. I personally wish the board and shareholders would throw out any of these folks from having control of the company, it's disgraceful because it isn't about what is best for the executives or board, it is about what is best for the company as a whole. Disgraceful behavior from many of those at the top.
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Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
its nowhere enough, the product development head, the compliance head, the support heads have to roll. in fact, the shareholders should demand the entire company be liquidated and the money returned to the shareholders.
LOL it's doubtful they shareholders will demand liquidation pennies when they can get dividend dollars (or Euros) for years and years.
its nowhere enough, the product development head, the compliance head, the support heads have to roll. in fact, the shareholders should demand the entire company be liquidated and the money returned to the shareholders.
LOL it's doubtful they shareholders will demand liquidation pennies when they can get dividend dollars (or Euros) for years and years.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Wonder if anyone at GM will lose their job over the 130 deaths?
I read that the engineer or manager that didn't change the part rev when the design change came through was dismissed. That's about it.
Wonder if anyone at GM will lose their job over the 130 deaths?
I read that the engineer or manager that didn't change the part rev when the design change came through was dismissed. That's about it.
Originally Posted By: CT8
I still an unhappy employee ratted VW out.
Not sure what "still" means, but the non-compliance was found by a third party testing group that was hired to promote diesel technology. They found the problem in real life driving using a vehicle mounted spectrometer. They also extensively tested a BMW diesel which had NO such problems, so they knew it wasn't their equipment.
In other words... the EPA was the last ones to know.
I still an unhappy employee ratted VW out.
Not sure what "still" means, but the non-compliance was found by a third party testing group that was hired to promote diesel technology. They found the problem in real life driving using a vehicle mounted spectrometer. They also extensively tested a BMW diesel which had NO such problems, so they knew it wasn't their equipment.
In other words... the EPA was the last ones to know.
Originally Posted By: CT8
I still an unhappy employee ratted VW out.
+1 agreed.......yet somehow I still get that warm feeling in my heart that some software guru got one over on the EPA.
The thought of it is actually brilliant. About 30 years ago TRW Aerospace got caught doing a similar ruse. Also brilliant...but one disgruntled employee called the FBI....after that TRW sold off the whole division.
I still an unhappy employee ratted VW out.
+1 agreed.......yet somehow I still get that warm feeling in my heart that some software guru got one over on the EPA.
The thought of it is actually brilliant. About 30 years ago TRW Aerospace got caught doing a similar ruse. Also brilliant...but one disgruntled employee called the FBI....after that TRW sold off the whole division.
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I wonder if VW is the only company guilty of playing those games? Time will tell. I can't wait to see what the fine is and how VW has to make good.
I have a couple of names, so don't blame Winterkorn for failing to scrutinize the project like these two should have:
The Powertrain group led by Cambridge-educated Johannes Arning, and
Technical development leader Thorsten Duesterdiek
These were techie car guys that knew the long history of EPA laws and diesel emissions very well.
The Powertrain group led by Cambridge-educated Johannes Arning, and
Technical development leader Thorsten Duesterdiek
These were techie car guys that knew the long history of EPA laws and diesel emissions very well.
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Actually the former CEO of VW Audi Group, Ferdinand Piech, would know something as he was a chief engineer before becoming involved in senior executive operations at the company.
He's a very good example of a CEO who would actually understand how things work, ironically.
demarpaint: We know no one else could have done this. I've been told repeatedly that only VW/Audi would ever do such a thing.
Actually the former CEO of VW Audi Group, Ferdinand Piech, would know something as he was a chief engineer before becoming involved in senior executive operations at the company.
He's a very good example of a CEO who would actually understand how things work, ironically.
demarpaint: We know no one else could have done this. I've been told repeatedly that only VW/Audi would ever do such a thing.
Originally Posted By: JetStar
I can't help but think this was some type of test, diagnostic, or prototype code that got left in the final release. Perpetuated by code re-use. I've seen and heard of things like that happening. Could be poor software configuration management, lack of adequate review, etc.... We may never know if it was accidental or intentional.
Well the CEO said yesterday that they admitted they were dishonest so it was intentional manipulation. He did not say it was accident or try to skirt the issue. So there you go.
They already tried to cover it up with a software recall, but it wasn't enough to fix the problem, because the problem isn't with the software. The software is just a patch to get around the test.
I can't help but think this was some type of test, diagnostic, or prototype code that got left in the final release. Perpetuated by code re-use. I've seen and heard of things like that happening. Could be poor software configuration management, lack of adequate review, etc.... We may never know if it was accidental or intentional.
Well the CEO said yesterday that they admitted they were dishonest so it was intentional manipulation. He did not say it was accident or try to skirt the issue. So there you go.
They already tried to cover it up with a software recall, but it wasn't enough to fix the problem, because the problem isn't with the software. The software is just a patch to get around the test.
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Originally Posted By: Garak
demarpaint: We know no one else could have done this. I've been told repeatedly that only VW/Audi would ever do such a thing.
LOL It looks like BMW might be next, with their diesel offerings. I bet there'll be others....
to watch this play out.
demarpaint: We know no one else could have done this. I've been told repeatedly that only VW/Audi would ever do such a thing.
LOL It looks like BMW might be next, with their diesel offerings. I bet there'll be others....
VW might have done their emissions scandal in Europe too. This was just announced.
The BWM offering in question I believe is the X3 diesel. The news is unfolding as I type. This could be true for all or most of the German diesel offerings. Now I'm wondering about the big three, and their diesel offerings.
The BWM offering in question I believe is the X3 diesel. The news is unfolding as I type. This could be true for all or most of the German diesel offerings. Now I'm wondering about the big three, and their diesel offerings.
http://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/vw%E2%80%99s-cheating-just-tip-iceberg
But for some models the gap is so large T&E suspects that the car is able to detect when it is tested using a “defeat device” and artificially lowers emissions during the test. For example [*]: a diesel Audi A8 tested in Europe produced nitrogen oxide emissions 21.9 times over the legal limit on the road; a BMW X3 diesel was 9.9 times over the limit on the road; an Opal Zafira Tourer, 9.5 times; Citroen C4 Picasso 5.1 times. All these vehicles passed the laboratory test.
In CO2 tests, on average almost every Mercedes model achieves levels on the road over 50% higher than the laboratory tests; the BMW 5 series and Peugeot 308 achieve just shy of 50% higher than in the lab. For virtually every new model that comes onto the market the gap between test and real-world performance leaps. With the launch of the VW Golf Mark VII the gap between test and real-world CO2 emissions jumped from 22% to 41%. The gap for the new Mercedes C Class rose from 37% to 53%; for the Renault Clio IV the gap almost doubled from 19% to 34%. These changes are unlikely to be caused solely by the increased use of test flexibilities – the more sinister and illegal defeat devices may also be in use and T&E has initiated a testing programme to demonstrate this as the US authorities have done to expose VW
But for some models the gap is so large T&E suspects that the car is able to detect when it is tested using a “defeat device” and artificially lowers emissions during the test. For example [*]: a diesel Audi A8 tested in Europe produced nitrogen oxide emissions 21.9 times over the legal limit on the road; a BMW X3 diesel was 9.9 times over the limit on the road; an Opal Zafira Tourer, 9.5 times; Citroen C4 Picasso 5.1 times. All these vehicles passed the laboratory test.
In CO2 tests, on average almost every Mercedes model achieves levels on the road over 50% higher than the laboratory tests; the BMW 5 series and Peugeot 308 achieve just shy of 50% higher than in the lab. For virtually every new model that comes onto the market the gap between test and real-world performance leaps. With the launch of the VW Golf Mark VII the gap between test and real-world CO2 emissions jumped from 22% to 41%. The gap for the new Mercedes C Class rose from 37% to 53%; for the Renault Clio IV the gap almost doubled from 19% to 34%. These changes are unlikely to be caused solely by the increased use of test flexibilities – the more sinister and illegal defeat devices may also be in use and T&E has initiated a testing programme to demonstrate this as the US authorities have done to expose VW
Yep, basically, when we get less than advertised fuel mileage, that's the cost of doing business. When the environmental regulators find an issue with emissions performance, look the heck out.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: BRZED
At least Porsche is golden.
Well... we can hope.
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1100154_vw-troubles-could-become-audi-and-porsche-problems
VW Diesel Troubles Could Become Audi And Porsche Problems
Now the EPA is going to take a closer look at the automaker's 3.0-liter V-6 diesel, which is an engine found in plenty of Audi offerings and some Porsches as well.
The 3.0-liter engine has already been certified by the EPA for the 2016 model year. That certification, however, came before the agency knew what they do about the 2.0-liter. This means there will be a much closer look of the 3.0-liter being undertaken. It's an incredibly important engine to Audi, as it is currently offered in the Q5, A6, A7 and the A8. Additionally, Porsche offers a TDI variant of the Cayenne with this engine here in the U.S., and the Panamera also offers it overseas.
At least Porsche is golden.
Well... we can hope.
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1100154_vw-troubles-could-become-audi-and-porsche-problems
VW Diesel Troubles Could Become Audi And Porsche Problems
Now the EPA is going to take a closer look at the automaker's 3.0-liter V-6 diesel, which is an engine found in plenty of Audi offerings and some Porsches as well.
The 3.0-liter engine has already been certified by the EPA for the 2016 model year. That certification, however, came before the agency knew what they do about the 2.0-liter. This means there will be a much closer look of the 3.0-liter being undertaken. It's an incredibly important engine to Audi, as it is currently offered in the Q5, A6, A7 and the A8. Additionally, Porsche offers a TDI variant of the Cayenne with this engine here in the U.S., and the Panamera also offers it overseas.
Not just the eco cops, but every alphabet soup agency may be putting a jack boot on VW's throat. In addition to EPA and DOJ, FTC can, and should, hammer them for a blatantly long running campaign of false and misleading advertising, and IRS may, and should, get the tax credit money back.
Maybe this will just be a speed bump for them, but they're an insignificant player in this country, and this could drive them out of business here.
Edit: And that's just the Feds. Who thinks the states won't be lining up for free money?
Maybe this will just be a speed bump for them, but they're an insignificant player in this country, and this could drive them out of business here.
Edit: And that's just the Feds. Who thinks the states won't be lining up for free money?
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