HD Shotgun?

[ensoniqman]

Had the MB 500 with short tactical barrell for 7 years...then the firing mechanism failed twice on it in 2 years. It was under warranty, so I shipped it to their headquarters in Eagle Point where they fixed it free of charge. Sold it and bought an 870 instead.
My friend/neighbor went with the Savage 12ga tactical HD shotgun because both he and his wife liked the feel of it better.

 

[Hohn]

Helping a friend pick a shotgun for home defense. Narrowed it down to two Mossberg shotguns. Series 590A1 which comes in several different offerings. Both 20" barrels [he doesn't want the 18.5" version], one with Ghost Rings, the other with XG Ghost Rings. Lets hear it from the Shotgun experts, I like the XG Ghost Rings. Thanks.

590a1 with XG ghost rings and call it done.

The only thing meaningfully "better" is a beretta 1301 at double the cost or more. I personally think semi auto is strongly recommended for anything resembling combat (i.e. they might shoot back).

But the 590in your hand beats the 1301 on the shelf all day.

 

[oil pan 4]

Is he a large or small guy?

I only ask this, super light 12Ga will punish his slender erse while he gets lots of practice in. He may get all flinchy. But of course a lighter gun is more maneuverable. I have a Win 1300 Featherweight Classic. Just over 5 pounds. I have purple marks.

At 5lb even a 20 gauge shotgun will beat you up. A proper 12 gauge should weigh around 8lb. A 5lb guns is something for carrying a long ways and only shooting a few or zero times.

 

[Ranger83]

At 5lb even a 20 gauge shotgun will beat you up. A proper 12 gauge should weigh around 8lb. A 5lb guns is something for carrying a long ways and only shooting a few or zero times.

We have a 20 ga loaded with #3 buck. It’s lighter than the 12 ga, so it feels about the same.

We have some 12ga Speer Lawman #4 buck self defense ammo that seemed to be lower recoil: muzzle velocity was 1145 fps. Speer seems to have discontinued it but Federal offers reduced recoil 00 buck .

 

[LDB]

I'm going with the 590S and the 1.75" #4's as an ideal combination. 13 rounds without reloading should be more than adequate.

 

[Speedbird001]

10 pages, I can't believe no reccomendations for Mossberg Shockwave (Should I ever get the scratch together, I'm picking up a 590s (For mini-shells)

For now, I LOVE my KSG (Haters gonna hate, but easy to handle and with 22 +1 mini shells; you can surely make a stand)

 

[burbguy82]

10 pages, I can't believe no reccomendations for Mossberg Shockwave (Should I ever get the scratch together, I'm picking up a 590s (For mini-shells)

For now, I LOVE my KSG (Haters gonna hate, but easy to handle and with 22 +1 mini shells; you can surely make a stand)

I have a shock wave, in 12ga. It is not the funnest gun to shoot, but can be effective with practice. Not a beginners gun for sure.

 

[RitcheyRch]

I have a Benelli M1 Super 90

 

[Hohn]

10 pages, I can't believe no reccomendations for Mossberg Shockwave (Should I ever get the scratch together, I'm picking up a 590s (For mini-shells)

For now, I LOVE my KSG (Haters gonna hate, but easy to handle and with 22 +1 mini shells; you can surely make a stand)

Because it's a gimmick that nobody serious about actual defense would ever recommend. If you are shooting inside your house YOU CANNOT MISS. That means you need to shoot something you can actually aim with reasonable precision.

 

[Hohn]

I think a lot of commenters here are focusing on ammo capacity when they should be focusing more on shootability. The amount of rounds you can hold only matters when you aren't missing with the ones you have.

This is why I strongly recommend someone pay very careful attention to not missing. There's no harmless miss inside your home. Everything you can shoot that's capable of hurting a bad guy or other animal sufficiently is also capable of doing serious harm to a neighbor or family member.

If a 22LR is the only thing you can shoot effectively, it's better to be peppering a bad guy with 22LR than it us to be blasting 12ga all over your house under the mistaken impression you don't even need to aim a shotgun. Not only do you need to aim a shotgun, you MUST aim it.

That means your shotgun should have a red dot on it (ideally) or at least a ghost ring. If you can't control 12ga effectively, step down to 20ga. It's plenty for defense and has much less recoil.

The ultimate HD weapon is probably a short barrel, semi-auto 20ga with a quality red dot. Yes, the 12ga is more powerful, but the 20ga is just as effective while being much faster to get your follow up shots.

I advocate for as much firepower as you can control-- but no more. A weapon you aren't fully in control of is as likely to do net harm as to actually save your life. (Hence the obvious implication: PRACTICE and GET TRAINED).

 

[oil pan 4]

We have a 20 ga loaded with #3 buck. It’s lighter than the 12 ga, so it feels about the same.

We have some 12ga Speer Lawman #4 buck self defense ammo that seemed to be lower recoil: muzzle velocity was 1145 fps. Speer seems to have discontinued it but Federal offers reduced recoil 00 buck .

I found 00 appears to normally go straight through deer. Probably would with people too.

 

[Mekks]

870 Police Magnum from 1994. Picked it up for $265 and added Magpul goods, a Nordic +2.

Into it for less than 500 so far. Want to get it coated but not sure its worth it for such a cheap gun.

 

[Astro14]

Because it's a gimmick that nobody serious about actual defense would ever recommend. If you are shooting inside your house YOU CANNOT MISS. That means you need to shoot something you can actually aim with reasonable precision.

Not according to this guy - shoot from the hip - and the pellets will find their target.

with a home defense shotgun, (short barrel) all you need to do is have the gun pointed in the direction of the intruder. The spread and spray of shot does the rest. Place a 4” x 8” sheet of plywood or wall board 30 feet away and shoot from the hip with short barrel and #8 shot. You’ll quickly understand.

 

[Hohn]

I found 00 appears to normally go straight through deer. Probably would with people too.

Yep, and a couple walls to boot.

 

[Hohn]

Not according to this guy - shoot from the hip - and the pellets will find their target.

#8 shot for self defense. Interesting proposition. I'm pretty sure that will turn the first couple inches of flesh to pulp, but have zero actual stopping power in a center of mass hit.

Not to mention the obvious problem that any load with enough spread to ensure you don't need to aim will also guarantee max collateral damage. I suppose the home defense hand grenade is an untapped market just waiting to be explored.

 

[Astro14]

#8 shot for self defense. Interesting proposition. I'm pretty sure that will turn the first couple inches of flesh to pulp, but have zero actual stopping power in a center of mass hit.

Not to mention the obvious problem that any load with enough spread to ensure you don't need to aim will also guarantee max collateral damage. I suppose the home defense hand grenade is an untapped market just waiting to be explored.

He shoots at the face, from the hip, with a short barrel, secure in the knowledge that the pellets will hit his intended target, destroying teeth and eyeballs and winning the fight.

I encourage you to go back and read his posts.

I did not agree with them.

 

[thastinger]

#8 shot for self defense. Interesting proposition. I'm pretty sure that will turn the first couple inches of flesh to pulp, but have zero actual stopping power in a center of mass hit.

Not to mention the obvious problem that any load with enough spread to ensure you don't need to aim will also guarantee max collateral damage. I suppose the home defense hand grenade is an untapped market just waiting to be explored.

I think by BIL keeps his loaded with 2 beanbags, 2 7.5 bird and 2 #4 buck. I can see the logic but I don't subscribe to it.

 

[Hohn]

He shoots at the face, from the hip, with a short barrel, secure in the knowledge that the pellets will hit his intended target, destroying teeth and eyeballs and winning the fight.

I encourage you to go back and read his posts.

I did not agree with them.

Well yes, a blinded toothless assailant is less of a risk for sure.


I have several hobbies and frequent different boards that discuss them. You'll never find a more closed minded, arrogantly-confident-while-wrong group than fellow gun people.

As the man once said "it's not that they're ignorant; it's that they know so much that isn't so." I'm surprised there's so little ability to recognize human limitations in so many scenarios. Everyone is assuming they will calmly and deftly execute with the skill of a Delta operator will overlooking the minor detail that we are not, in general, Delta operators.

Someone who has embraced his limitations and trained to mitigate them is IMO likely to be far more real world capable than someone pulling the self-defense equivalent of the American Idol contestant who only finds out they cannot sing at all when humiliated in front of judges. Only instead of being humiliated by your lack of awareness or surplus of ego, you end up dead or disabled.

 

[Astro14]

I think by BIL keeps his loaded with 2 beanbags, 2 7.5 bird and 2 #4 buck. I can see the logic but I don't subscribe to it.

Yeah, that logic assumes that you will get five opportunities to squeeze the trigger.

I’m more in the camp of, “the first round had better be effective”.

Full disclosure - I don’t even own a shotgun. It’s not my go to for self defense.

I do shoot skeet, with a borrowed 12 gauge, and enjoy it, so, I am well aware of how they pattern, how the work, and the recoil, but the shotgun isn’t my preferred weapon.

My HD weapon is a .300 BLK SBR with a suppressor and a red dot. We can talk pros and cons of that set-up all day.

But whether shotgun, SBR, rifle, or pistol, aiming is important. Familiarity with the weapon, and its manual of arms, is important. Being able to shoot it accurately and quickly under pressure is important.

 

[Hohn]

I think by BIL keeps his loaded with 2 beanbags, 2 7.5 bird and 2 #4 buck. I can see the logic but I don't subscribe to it.

I've never subscribed to using nonlethal force when lethal force is warranted.

But that's because I have a seriously high bar for when lethal force is legally or morally warranted. I think nonlethal options in a lethal weapon system invite usage where it isn't appropriate. Not to mention potential confusion. "I didn't mean to kill him, I thought it was only a beanbag." Don't shoot until and unless you have no other choice. But then, make it count with the least possible collateral damage.

What is lawful is often nonetheless unwise.

I live in a state where the law would allow me to legally deploy lethal force against a law enforcement officer within my home if he's not authorized to be there, even if he's there by accident (say, wrong address for a warrant serve). But does that make it wise to come flying out of your room armed when the house is surrounded by cops? I'm no prophet, but I can see that not ending well.

As I've commented elsewhere, I don't want to get shot, but neither do I want to shoot someone. And if I can get the would-be assailant face down at gunpoint while wife dials the cops, I'll do so. The trauma to my family of having the cops come arrest a guy is certainly less than what is left behind after discharging a firearm indoors and having a huge bloody mess.

There's no "win" in a self defense scenario. There's only loss and trying to minimize it. The best you can get to a "win" is avoidance or prevention-- a break even. If you haven't been able to avoid or prevent, then you are going to lose something, and the goal is to make is minimal.