Hatred for Bush?

[Mystic]

It took a joint effort on the part of all the Allied nations to defeat Hitler and the Japanese. The Soviet Union probably would have been defeated if not for American support. The Soviets did inflict most of the German losses but Germany was unable to concentrate mainly just on the Soviet Union because of the threat of American and British attacks from the west. It took a group effort to defeat Hitler-it took a village, not just one nation.

I think it is illogical to hate a politician like President Bush. He is hardly as evil as Saddam was. You can disagree with his policies and want him to be replaced, but hating the man is totally illogical.

I do not hate John Kerry. I think he is the wrong choice for president but I certainly do not hate the man.

Don't hate somebody. If you don't like the current president, then vote against him. People who actually hate Bush need to take a good look at themselves.

 

[mnztr]

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Exaclty.....so, you still maintain that the Russians are the ones that defeated Hitler?

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Yes. The battle of Stalingrad was won before the US entered the war. Kursk was won shortly after the US entered the war. I'm not arguing the US did not have a significant impact, it would have taken a much longer time for the Germans to have been defeated without US involvement but they WOULD have been defeated. Their back was already broken after Kursk. Stalin was a psychopath, his generals won the war. He did more harm then good.

 

[mnztr]

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We don't strap dynamite and rusty nails to our kids and send them off to Israeli checkpoints.

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Why do that when you can send your kid over in F16's and drop JDAMS...much more effective then a suicide bomb...no?

 

[Last_Z]

You make good points, but this:

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I'm not arguing the US did not have a significant impact, it would have taken a much longer time for the Germans to have been defeated without US involvement but they WOULD have been defeated.

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I'm not too sure, especially with the speed in which the French surrendered. Britain was at the brink of collapse, eventhough American Liberty Ships were trying to supply the Brits nonstop. The U-Boats Wolfpacks kept sinking them and totally dominated the Atlantic. It wasn't until after the US joined the war that we started going after the U-Boats....achieving our greatest success once we broke the German Enigma Code.
I believe the biggest mistake Hitler made was rushing "Operation Barbarossa." Had he waited just a bit longer, he could have starved the Brits and could concentrate on the very unprepared Russians. I also believe Japan screwed it for Hitler by attacking us.
It has been said what won the war was the American industries and resources. One good example is the Sherman tank.....which compared to the Panzer and Tiger, was a joke due to it being less armored and having a very weak canon. They however, out-numbered German tanks 10:1.....that's a lot of Shermans! German planes were also out numbered at the same or even higher ratios.
America's might and manpower, Britain's refusal to surrender, Hitler's mistakes and Russian hatred for the Germans is what won the war......in that particular order (IMO)

 

[427Z06]

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Originally posted by mnztr:
The battle of Stalingrad was won before the US entered the war. Kursk was won shortly after the US entered the war. I'm not arguing the US did not have a significant impact, it would have taken a much longer time for the Germans to have been defeated without US involvement but they WOULD have been defeated. Their back was already broken after Kursk. Stalin was a psychopath, his generals won the war. He did more harm then good.

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Yo! Can you help me pick some numbers for a lottery ticket? You seem to be able to tell what could of happen in the past with certainty. I'm hoping you can predict the future as well.

 

[GSV]

Pointing out all the ridiculous and pathetic aspects of Soviet Canuckistan is kind of like picking on little retarded kids. It is generally bad form.

That being said, whose PM thinks D-Day was an invasion of Norway? Hint..he probably likes hockey. (hockey sucks)

“Sixty years ago, Canadians were working alongside their British and American allies planning for the invasion of Norway and the liberation of Europe,”

“Today, it is every bit as important that Canada step forward - just as we did during the invasion of Norway.”
Canuck link to idiot PM making an @$$ of himself

Former PM Frenchy Chretian makes this guy look bright in comparison.

 

[1sttruck]

When they asked what they needed the US was surprised when the Soviets requested aluminum, as like the Germans they had underestimated their manufacturing capability. The US did supply aircraft, but as an example the Soviets built over 41,000 IL-2 ground attack fighters, which I think is the most for any type in aviation history. The IL-2 is kind of the model for the A-10. The Soviets manufactured what is considered a classic tank design in the T-34, as manufactured a lot of other models like the heavy JS2. They created artillery divisions with guns of their making, and are famous for the Katyusha. They did rely heavily on US supplied Dodge trucks, aviation gasoline, and were most upset at the end of the war when the US quit supplying rations.

The Soviets suffered heavily at the outset, due to the complacency that had overtaken Stalin when they signed the pact with Germany, and to the purges that had taken place in the officer corps over the years. Although Zhukov would be able to hold off the Germans at the gates of Moscow, it would take awhile for the Soviets to be able to train and coordinate the fronts that would eventually result in the psychological turning point of the war at Stalingrad, and the military turning point at Kursk. Glantz, who I think is one of the best current authors on WWII, provides an excellent read on the subject in 'When Titans Clashed'. An earlier book by Ellis, 'Brute Force', also has some excellent chapters on the eastern front, but it's often hard to find.

As far as quote "But then again you come from Washington State. Which correct me if I'm wrong is the land of Jim "Bagdad" McDermott and Patty "Osama Bin" Murray. Two Democratic politicians who think more highly of Sadam and Osama than Bush.", someone needs to put down the big crayons. It suggests that everyone in Washington supports everything that the two politicians do, and it even suggests that the people in the state are unpatriotic. I'll be sure to pass that on to people I know, to the retired military, the Guard members, and the active duty serviceman at McChord AFB and Fairchild AFB, Ft Lewis, and the Naval stations at Whidbey Island, Everett, Bremerton, and Bangor. As for myself my father and grandfather were members of the Alaska Territorial Guard which was formed when WWII started, my father joined the Army Air Force in 1946 and retired in 1968, an uncle served in the Navy in the 1950s, one of his kids did a hitch in the Coast Guard, and a brother joined the Air Force. I served in the Marines.

I'll join the many other people in this country, including Gen Zinni, who think that 'they screwed up'.

 

[Mystic]

GSV, the educational system is really in bad shape (and not just in the USA) when a leader in another country apparently thinks that D-Day was on the beaches of Norway. At least the people at the top are supposed to be educated!

 

[mnztr]

The Russians built 34,000 T 34 tanks in WW II, so there was no shortage of hardware.

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it wasn't until after the US joined the war that we started going after the U-Boats....achieving our greatest success once we broke the German Enigma Code.

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In case you didn't know, it was the British who broke the Enigma code.

I still stand by what I said, Hitler would have been defeated by the Russians without help from the US. Saying anything else is a great insult to the millions of Russians that died to defeat Hitler.

 

[mnztr]

Yeah, yeah, so he made a silly mistake. Whatever, I'm not that crazy about our PM anyway.

 

[Titanium_Alloy]

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Originally posted by GSV:
If you think the Red Army rolling to the West coast of France would have "freed" Western Europe you have some serious issues.

We have posters from the former Warsaw Pact nations. Ask them if they were freed by the USSR.

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A number of the countries from a former Warsaw Pact acted with Germans. Majority not only didn't resist but actively assisted Germans in exterminating Jews and fighting soviets. If you're not aware of this in Lithuania they have build a number of monuments praising so-called freedom fighters (to free the country against communism influence). What they don't show is that those "fighters" were mostly in Gestapo and SS units clearing out villages, making punishing raids, supervising work in concentration camps, well you get the idea... Not only that, some people who are still alive and worked for Nazis make official celebrations, almost like memorial day but from other perspective. Do you still want to put a picture of American flag next to your post?

 

[motorguy222]

I was watching the last part of the Charlie Rose program,don't know if anyone else knows who he is.Anyway,Tony Kushner was talking about how Bush needed to go.He compared Bush to Osama Bin Laden,this guy was a complete joke.He was talking about how that Bush was rich,how he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and all of this garbage.Charlie then brought up Roosevelt and JFK and how that they were rich.Kushner responded by saying that Democrats have a different approach on things,baloney.The truth is that Kushner,a 'gay' liberal,just got caught spewing his hypocritical garbage and didn't have anything to fall back on and didn't know what to say.Kushner said that we in America were not overtaxed,I took this to mean that taxes should be raised.He said that Bush was unlearned.I don't know but Bush graduated from Yale,I don't think he is stupid by any means.I do agree that Bush is not very articulate,however I do believe that he is a very intelligent man.Kushner is the one that sounded unlearned.His ranting were completely off the wall.He made no sense.He said that Bush was hated I think by the whole world,I don't care what France,Germany or the UN thinks.This Kushner said that the US should get France,Germany,Japan,China etc. to send peace keeping troops to Iraq.The only country listed that has enough troops to amount to anything is China.Kushner seems to have forgotten that the US is the one that freed Europe in W.W.II,the US is the one that supplies the real troop numbers to NATO.The US is the one that usually sends in the most troops under the UN banner.This Kushner was a complete joke,he is yet another example of a liberal Bush hater with their 'gay agenda' getting caught and having nothing to back up their garbage with.His hatred for Bush stems from the fact that Bush is not for this gay marriage garbage.Bush stands for real families and Kushner hates him for doing so.

[ May 29, 2004, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: motorguy222 ]

 

[SAFN49]

mnztr, would you do me the favour of removing your hand from my "member" while you're busy urinating on President Bush, lest our American friends get the impression you're speaking for the rest of us. I happen to like the man and am hoping he's re-elected and I'm also hoping for a Republican majority. With the self-serving, arrogant, socialist, individuals that this country has been putting in power, for the last thirty or so years, we've got no room to be pointing fingers at any countries' leader.

 

[HOndaGuy]

Here's something liberals can't stand: Get a job, succeed, be happy. Good way to annoy a liberal.

Personally, I think the majority of ppl hate bush bc of all the events that took place in the last 4 years, which most of them(9/11 and the market crash thanks to greenspan) he had no control over.

As far as voting goes this novemember, I hope we have some intelligent voters going to the polls and not a bunch of sheep or stupid college kids that vote democratic bc their professors say to(Ive almost gotten into fights with my professors bc of how they try to convince the class into thinking liberals are the good of the ppl).
Ill give a good example of a democrat who is screwing our state up now: Jennifer Granholm. Id like nothing more than to slap that B*tch for what she has done to our state. She stopped our funding for college, raised tuition rates, insurance rates, passed the stupid .08 bac law for driving, and yada yada yada.

A lil offtopic. Most liberals have no problem with paying high gas prices, bc they say that other things cost more at the grocery store and such. What a bunch of idiots. If your gonna vote, vote smart. BUSH WIll get my vote this novemeber.

 

[sprintman]

For a better understanding of WW II The World at War TV series made in 1974 is a masterpiece. It's being replayed on Aussie TV again now. Available as a DVD set now too. Don't underestimate what the Russians did. They lost 20 million. Also I never realised how bad it was in England. One new fact I heard recently was that 80,000 dogs were put down and secretly buried in mass graves and thousands of others died of starvation. By the way my mother was buried by a V1 in London and luckily for me I guess lived to tell the tale.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

" Canadians just look at the US as a good friend that got stuck with a moron as a President because of a partisan judical decision. "
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There's the old he's a dumb conservative argument.

 

[Whimsey]

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Originally posted by sprintman:
For a better understanding of WW II The World at War TV series made in 1974 is a masterpiece. It's being replayed on Aussie TV again now. Available as a DVD set now too.

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That was an excellant series. My father was in the 166th Signal Corp. in WWII. They were one of the Signal Corps responsible for filming movies of the war in Europe. As we watched that series he would recognize different footage he shot and make comments. Unfortunately he never really liked to talk about his experiences in the war. And now he's gone.

Whimsey

 

[Hammer]

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Er, no that would be the Iranians and most of the Arab world. Canadians just look at the US as a good friend that got stuck with a moron as a President because of a partisan judical decision.

We're hoping you get liberated this fall.

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You should get your facts straight. The basic decision of the Supreme Court was that if the votes are to be recounted, they had to be recounted equally in ALL districts of Florida and NOT just the Liberal biased jurisdictions that the Gore team was contesting. Since so much time had passed up to this point and Florida needed it's vote count certified, they went ahead and did such, as a total state wide hand recount would have took too long to make the final deadline. Now, just to throw a real monkey wrench in your weak and false statement, In the year following the election, numerous Liberal newpapers conducted their own hand recounts so they could be happy with glea when they could prove that Gore should have been the real winner. Guess what? NOT ONE of the liberal biased recounts was able to come up with an Al Gore Victory!!!! Of course this didn't make the prime time news or the front pages of the papers because it doesn't support the Liberal Lie of Al Gore being the legitimate winner. How do you like them apples?

Hammer

 

[buster]

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First of all mnztr,the reason Bush is hated,if he truly is,which I think is a lot of leftist liberal propaganda,he is hated because he hasn't bowed down to France and the UN and stuck his head in the sand like Clinton did for 8 years.

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Very true.

I think Bush is of average intelligence. Al Gore seems to be the one lacking intelligence these days.

I believe Bush wasn't advised all that well on Iraq by George Tenet/Perle/Wolfowitz/Cheney/Rumsfeld.

 

[1sttruck]

'The World at War' is excellent. My wife is German, both of her parents were teenagers during the war. One time when her mother was visiting, after everyone had gone to bed, I started watching the World at War chapter that included the first large scale bombing of Hamburg, which resulted in a firestorm. As the footage showed the fires raging with the air raid sirens in the backround, her mother rushed into the room, her face white, and she asked what was happening. She was from Hamburg, and said that she headn't heard those sirens since she was a teenager.