Has PAO % of Mobil 1 0W20 EP been Reduced?

[travis8352]

The SDS may or may not be telling the truth about the range of content percentages. No guarantees there.

The reason, if the percentage of PAO decreased in the latest iteration of M1 EP's may be because of the Dec. 23rd 2021 explosion and fire at the Baytown, TX refinery, where a substantial amount of their PAO production originates from. If that production is still waiting to come back online, XOM may have to honor contracts with their customers who buy PAO and reduce amounts in their output. So, simply a case of force majeure, no hidden agenda or subversive conspiracy?

I had not thought of that. Many of their products have been changing msds values. At one point truck and suv 0w20 was listed as entirely group 3 then it went back to gtl/pao within a few weeks

 

[tolian21]

Pour Point is also reduced to -39C in SDS, perhaps they still did not sync up the other specs. Consistent with reduction on PAO....
"Triple Action" effect.

 

[travis8352]

Pour Point is also reduced to -39C in SDS, perhaps they still did not sync up the other specs. Consistent with reduction on PAO....
"Triple Action" effect.

Msds pour points for mobil products are not accurate. Some of their oils list the pour point in the msds as 96 degrees f ABOVE zero. Some are just 0 degrees celcius. None of them are accurate

 

[JHZR2]

Pour Point is also reduced to -39C in SDS, perhaps they still did not sync up the other specs. Consistent with reduction on PAO....
"Triple Action" effect.

This is most telling, IMO. I’d have thought/hoped they would have at least found a group III+ that had superior cold flow performance (granted pour point performance is far from everything). I suspect this means they picked a sufficiently robust base stock blend that meets 0w-20 without much of anything regarding VII or PPD.

I run EP in my accord hybrid because I drive highway a lot and the engine can rapidly shut off after a high power long pull that would notionally heat soak some areas pretty substantially.

 

[PimTac]

This is most telling, IMO. I’d have thought/hoped they would have at least found a group III+ that had superior cold flow performance (granted pour point performance is far from everything). I suspect this means they picked a sufficiently robust base stock blend that meets 0w-20 without much of anything regarding VII or PPD.

Perhaps their focus was on the 20,000 mile change interval as advertised?

 

[Bill_W]

Mobil 1 “Triple Action” is a way to hide in plain sight but change to a more cost efficient base oil.

 

[travis8352]

This is most telling, IMO. I’d have thought/hoped they would have at least found a group III+ that had superior cold flow performance (granted pour point performance is far from everything). I suspect this means they picked a sufficiently robust base stock blend that meets 0w-20 without much of anything regarding VII or PPD.

I run EP in my accord hybrid because I drive highway a lot and the engine can rapidly shut off after a high power long pull that would notionally heat soak some areas pretty substantially.

Msds pour points for mobil products are NOT accurate. Always look at pds

 

[ThatNavyGuy]

I’ve used M1 EP 0W-20 almost exclusively in my daily drivers with great results, and while I’m sure the new formula will continue to perform well, I must admit it’s lost some of it’s luster for me with this change. If PAO concentration is now just the same as other mainstream oils, I’ll probably switch to Valvoline EP in all my vehicles.

 

[travis8352]

https://sds.exxonmobil.com/Download.aspx?ID=978762&docFormat=PDF

Pao is gone from afe 0w16... fwiw

 

[JHZR2]

Msds pour points for mobil products are NOT accurate. Always look at pds

We don’t know that ANY from ANY manufacturer are accurate. PDS cloak formulations too. Much of this is a fool’s errand anyway.

Are increasingly stringent specs met?
Is the Wal Mart effect forcing commodity pricing lower?
Are we in a period of massive inflation, with oil prices still being reasonably ok at discount prices?
Are outcomes worse than 20 years ago?

As noted, I am a fan of more PAO for my hybrid. For other vehicles it doesn’t matter as much, IMO.

 

[Vern_in_IL]

Well, you see what has happened to the Mobil 1 Filter.... Mobil1 has a great product, I fear bean counters have taken over, and it's just been longer on the oil cause they are not chemist.
They are extracting "value" out of the brand. When you have been the best, and at the top for the longest, you become a legend, and they are going to cheapen up the products and increase profits, put pressure on other brands.

 

[tolian21]

Msds pour points for mobil products are NOT accurate. Always look at pds

When was their PDS last updated, also June 2022? Their pds only shows gen2, so you know it’s out of date, when the update comes out I expect it to have lower pour point

 

[tolian21]

Are we in a period of massive inflation, with oil prices still being reasonably ok at discount prices?

they chosen to make product cheaper rather than raise prices. That’s also inflation.

 

[travis8352]

We don’t know that ANY from ANY manufacturer are accurate. PDS cloak formulations too. Much of this is a fool’s errand anyway.

Are increasingly stringent specs met?
Is the Wal Mart effect forcing commodity pricing lower?
Are we in a period of massive inflation, with oil prices still being reasonably ok at discount prices?
Are outcomes worse than 20 years ago?

As noted, I am a fan of more PAO for my hybrid. For other vehicles it doesn’t matter as much, IMO.

I am a fan of pao as well im just saying the msds pour points are innaccurate... mobils base stock percentages are generally accepted to be "accurate" *********I KNOW ITS NOT A RECIPE***********
Sorry needed to make it clear that i know its not a recipe before im torn to pieces

 

[PimTac]

This is starting to turn into a wake for M1 but it shouldn’t be.

Again, the oils still meet all the specs and licenses. Saying you are going to quit M1 because of the lack of PAO and start using another oil that doesn’t have have any PAO in it makes little sense.

 

[travis8352]

When was their PDS last updated, also June 2022? Their pds only shows gen2, so you know it’s out of date, when the update comes out I expect it to have lower pour point

The pds has not been updated yet... the extended performance high mileage has and now the 0w20 ep hm has a -42 pour point and the 5w30 ep hm somehow pours at -54

However check out msds pour points for some mobil 1 oils. You will find some that claim the pour point is 100 degrees. Thats why i say they are not to be trusted

 

[travis8352]

This is starting to turn into a wake for M1 but it shouldn’t be.

Again, the oils still meet all the specs and licenses. Saying you are going to quit M1 because of the lack of PAO and start using another oil that doesn’t have have any PAO in it makes little sense.

Amen

 

[JHZR2]

Perhaps their focus was on the 20,000 mile change interval as advertised?

Not sure what you mean.

Group III+ has oxidative stability reaching that of PAO. If it can hold up for 20k in the reference worst case scenario, then perhaps it’s fine.

 

[tolian21]

Maybe it meets the specs, but no longer exceeds them. I find it hard to believe that they were able to substitute PAO with a cheaper alternative without any downsides. We will never know.

 

[doublebase]

I’ve used M1 EP 0W-20 almost exclusively in my daily drivers with great results, and while I’m sure the new formula will continue to perform well, I must admit it’s lost some of it’s luster for me with this change. If PAO concentration is now just the same as other mainstream oils, I’ll probably switch to Valvoline EP in all my vehicles.

Yeah, I’m thinking along similar lines. If the PAO is reduced I’ll shop around for something else.

I just purchased a five quart jug of Mobil1 0w20 EP off Amazon a month ago...hopefully it has the 70% PAO ratio I was expecting. But I’ll be shopping around for other brands now and probably reducing my intervals into the 7,500 range.