Has anyone actually tried this?

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He should buy it. It will be an excellent learning experience!

Originally Posted By: MagDrive
A fallacy out there is that it takes more energy to produce the HHO than the energy it releases. Not at all true, that's why there are HHO generators available out there.


. . . and fuel line magnets, and intake tornadoes, and platinum injection, and Slick50 . . .

I'll believe it when the first perpetual energy HHO power plant is built.

Originally Posted By: MagDrive
Not really, the fossil fuel [gas or deisel] produces more than enough heat during combustion that when the HHO burns and converts back to water, the engine temps are high enough to keep it as a vapored steam until it exits the exhaust system.


Vapored steam? Now there's a term I didn't learn in my thermodynamics classes! It would also look more promising if they were able to spell diesel.
 
If these things worked, Car and truck manufacturers would be all over them to increase their CAFE numbers.
 
Originally Posted By: rpn453

Vapored steam? Now there's a term I didn't learn in my thermodynamics classes! It would also look more promising if they were able to spell diesel.


I think I will go have a glass of unvapored steam.
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Oh this water gas stuff is great. It's even got it's own conspiracy theory about a proponent "mysteriously" dying of food poisoning.
 
Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: rpn453

Vapored steam? Now there's a term I didn't learn in my thermodynamics classes! It would also look more promising if they were able to spell diesel.


I think I will go have a glass of unvapored steam.
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I'll take the super saturated unvapored steam, if you please. Do you have it on tap?
 
Does your friend bet on horses? That's what Brown's gas generators are so far. There's a lot more losers than winners and the house always takes a cut. If your friend has money to gamble and thinks that they can successfully execute the money back guarantee then he might get lucky.

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I'll take the super saturated unvapored steam, if you please. Do you have it on tap?


We can't get that from the tap but I have some right here in the microwave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGUrX6Yl54o
 
Originally Posted By: severach
Does your friend bet on horses? That's what Brown's gas generators are so far. There's a lot more losers than winners and the house always takes a cut. If your friend has money to gamble and thinks that they can successfully execute the money back guarantee then he might get lucky.



Yeah that's pretty much what I told him from the start. Still guys - all kidding aside - I'd like to have some real reasons why this will not work. I've already pointed out some wrong stuff to him on the web site - but he is convinced that "hydrogen" is the way to go.
 
In my undisciplined view, the trick you have to pull off is creating electricity directly (and enough of it) from waste heat to create your "unvapored steam" (I assume this is the equally undisciplined inventor's term for unbound gaseous state that was once water - that is, not a saturated vapor). I guess you could use thermocouples ..but just how much could one produce given the scale of our consumption/demand ..and at what cost??
 
I don't see any theoretical reason why the engine's waste heat couldn't be used in some useful way, either by electrolyzing water to produce burnable hydrogen or in some other way.

BMW was working on a system to use exhaust heat to create steam, ad then use that heat energy to increase the engine's power. They were looking at a small but significant improvement in efficiency and performance.

Whether a home-brew solution is practical is another question. I haven't even looked at the links in this thread and don't know what type of system is being proposed here.

What could it possibly have to do with quantum mechanics?
 
Is it possible that it could be activated only during deceleration and braking so that it would store some of the energy from the alternator that would otherwise be wasted in the brakes.

Hear is how I'd do it when I want to slowdown.
1. downshift so fuel injectors are cut.
2. activate hho generator then shut off when RPMs drop too much.
3. light turn green, accelerate and open valve to release stored hydrogen.

I have no idea if this would work.
 
what this hydrogen setup is this: you send a current through (+) terminal that has a stainless steel 316l wire wrapped around something inside a jar and another (-) terminal with another wire coiled inside also, but not touching each other. You fill the jar with water and usually with baking soda or lye to allow electrolysis with the introduction of 12 volts to the pos wire.this in turn causes fissing on the wires,which is hydrogen being produced.This is then fed into the engine.Although the water does get warm,there is no need for anything to be hot and no water steam is necessary.
 
Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
Yeah that's pretty much what I told him from the start. Still guys - all kidding aside - I'd like to have some real reasons why this will not work. I've already pointed out some wrong stuff to him on the web site - but he is convinced that "hydrogen" is the way to go.


Simply ask him for the link to the credible research which shows that it does work. That way, you'll find out whether he's going off faith or science. If it's faith, it's a lost cause because science can never disprove faith.
 
Originally Posted By: rpn453


Simply ask him for the link to the credible research which shows that it does work. That way, you'll find out whether he's going off faith or science. If it's faith, it's a lost cause because science can never disprove faith.


Good point. He is going on what they are saying on their web page and what he THINKS he knows. He claims to want my opinion, but every time I tell him something he starts trying to shoot me down or as he said "Prove what you are saying".
So I think you are right - it's a lost cause!

I was hoping to find someone who has actually tried this thing. Personally I think MOST people would be ashamed to admit they sunk 600-1200 dollars into a piece of junk! I know I would!
 
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Here's why it shouldn't work. Read up on the efficiency numbers.

Wikipedia: Electrolysis of water

It is hard to believe that mileage would benefit if the conversion of water -> electrolysis -> Brown's Gas -> burning -> heat were 100% efficient. At 33% efficiency which looks in line with the loss of electrolysis and the heat loss of an engine we can see there an immediate loss of energy to be overcome if there is to be any increase in mileage. Since there's no obvious reason why the introduction of Brown's gas, hydrogen, or oxygen in the fuel air stream should substantially increase the efficiency of an engine which many claim is already close to maximum efficiency, science says that a Brown's gas generator powered by the alternator should produce more loss than gain.

The system consumes distilled water, electrolyte, and electrodes, none of which are free, though the claim is that 316L stainless corrodes so slowly that it's cost should never be an issue.

They have an EFIE like device. Hacking into any of the emissions sensors is illegal without EPA approval. You need an EFIE because lots of extra oxygen shows up in the exhaust. Since the hydrogen and oxygen are perfectly matched, there must be extra hydrogen there too, yet more waste and not good for your catalytic converter.

Fuel and air are carefully regulated. Depending on how you hook these up and how well you maintain the conductivity of the electrolyte the Brown's gas stream is essentially unregulated, or possibly regulated to the opposite of what you want. It's hard to see how this would improve anything without the ability to produce dependable quantities of gas matched to engine operating conditions.

The technical writing on all these HHO sites is poor and fuelfromh2o is worse than average which detracts from their credibility already ailing from pushing something expensive that science and industry says doesn't work.

I say it's a horse race because there are enough good claims about Brown's gas generators that they can't all be deluded, lying, or incapable of measuring correctly. Even if they do work, they may not work on your vehicle or you may be unable to make one work properly. That's why you need to secure your ability to return it before buying.

I know someone that put a 4 cylinder Dutchman HAFC kit onto a V8 and the mileage went from 18 to 26. The trouble is they put the entire kit in which includes fuel heat, an EFIE equivalent O2, and gas additives and the vehicle is too old to be tested with a Scanguage so they have no idea which, if any, caused the increase and tank mileage testing makes it impractical to remove various things for a short time to see how the mileage changes. They paid, put it all on, and got enough gain to avoid exercising the return policy. Could they have got the same benefit from low cost products or better maintenance? Hard to tell!

HHO generators need to get a lot cheaper or better accepted before I'm willing to put my money on it.
 
Originally Posted By: daves66nova
what this hydrogen setup is this: you send a current through (+) terminal that has a stainless steel 316l wire wrapped around something inside a jar and another (-) terminal with another wire coiled inside also, but not touching each other. You fill the jar with water and usually with baking soda or lye to allow electrolysis with the introduction of 12 volts to the pos wire.this in turn causes fissing on the wires,which is hydrogen being produced.This is then fed into the engine.Although the water does get warm,there is no need for anything to be hot and no water steam is necessary.


Click me and watch me work!
 
If people would bypass this interim technology, and go straight to the Joe Cell, there would be a whole lot better understanding of the nature of these devices.

Joe cell = no fossil fuels burned at all.
 
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