Group III superior to Group IV???

[Dr. T]

Any thoughts/comments on the recent Lubrication Articel circulating around this board claiming: "A modern Group III oil can actually outperform a PAO in several areas important to lubricants, such as additive solubility, lubricity and antiwear performance." Any truth to this?? How were these results achieved? Comments?

 

[MolaKule]

I have not seen this article but it can't be true. PAO is superior to Group III in many ways, just as Esters are superior to PAO's.

Now a proper mix or blend of all three can be done with good results.

 

[Cary]

I don't believe the article stated that Group III oils outperform (except for the cost), but that they can approach the performance of Group IV when the proper additive are used.

Cary

 

[csandste]

I certainly don't have the expertise to refute MolaKule, but found the article to be very interesting--certainly makes a strong case that there are aspects of group III which are very strong if not superior.

 

[outrun]

With a delicacy level additive package a Group III oil can be formidable...low wear and good cleaning abilities.

Ex:

Chevron Supreme's ISO-SYN formulations

Shaeffers Stuff

Amsoil 7500

All in all PAO & Esters are superior than Group III bases.

I will note that Mobil 1 as stout as it is (10W30) could use better additives

 

[Dr. T]

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=533

 

[WeyounDS9]

I think "outrun" summed it out near perfectly.

Fred..

 

[HOndaGuy]

no, no group 3 outperforms any group 4 on its own. Sorry, but I don't buy crap oil that is 4 bucks that claim to be "synthetic".

 

[Al]

quote:

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Originally posted by HOndaGuy:
no, no group 3 outperforms any group 4 on its own. Sorry, but I don't buy crap oil that is 4 bucks that claim to be "synthetic".

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Yea-that's still the problem for me if the Group III doesn't outperform the PAO. I have difficulty philosophically here.

Also in the article they discussed mostly turbine oils (4 cSt oil) and also they mentioned that the very latest generation of Group III was competitive with PAO. How do we know which Group III is in which oil

And as far as lubricity and anti-wear of the bast stock-Who cares the main amount of lubricity (probably) and anti-wear (certainly) comes from the additives and not the base stock.

 

[Patman]

For those of you who doubt this, just look at Schaeffer's blends. The 10w30 is about 75% group 2+ and 25% PAO, while the 5w30 is 75% group 3 and 25% PAO, but yet this oil outperforms or at least matches the performance of many group 4/5 oils out there.

Like Bob always says, it's the additive package, not the base oil, which determines a major portion of an oil's quality.