Group II and III oils without any "polar content"

[pickled]

Do not question the power of AutoRx Shannow.....

If the pitchman Billy Mays was still vertical (RIP BILLY) he would answer Mori's question with gusto by giving a demonstration of its cleaning power in any oil!!

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
I can feel a GA written ensemble coming on soon

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: moribundman
Are you saying, due to a variety of possible interactions, there is no way of predicting the effect of polar components on the effectiveness of A-Rx ?



I would say the instructions are not adequately descriptive of the requirements. One could determine experimentally or by large quantities of data, what the effacacy of something is withrespect to other things, and determine what should or shouldnt be paired.

What I was getting at in my prior post was that the effect of one type of molecule, be it an ester, some other polar molecule, or anything else, could be vastly different to another molecule that shows a similar atom, functional group, etc. An ester is just an organic functional group, which can have a wildly different structure and characteristics over the rest of the molecule.

A purely hydrocarbon-based ester maybe completely different in interactions with surfaces than an ester complexed with a metal.

 

[Audi Junkie]

I've heard the Cononco blenders take a special cut off the hydrocracker to get polarized base oils for the Motorcraft product.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I would say the instructions are not adequately descriptive of the requirements. One could determine experimentally or by large quantities of data, what the effacacy of something is withrespect to other things, and determine what should or shouldnt be paired.

What I was getting at in my prior post was that the effect of one type of molecule, be it an ester, some other polar molecule, or anything else, could be vastly different to another molecule that shows a similar atom, functional group, etc. An ester is just an organic functional group, which can have a wildly different structure and characteristics over the rest of the molecule.

A purely hydrocarbon-based ester maybe completely different in interactions with surfaces than an ester complexed with a metal.

All Grp II and Grp III base oils have some polarity from residual ring compounds, and many additives are quite polar, as are some combustion by-products.

I think A-Rx is recommending toward lower polarity oils because of a perceived theoretical incompatibility, but that can really only be determined experimentally with specific oils, and generalizing can be misleading or confusing.

Tom NJ

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
I think A-Rx is recommending toward lower polarity oils because of a perceived theoretical incompatibility, but that can really only be determined experimentally with specific oils, and generalizing can be misleading or confusing.

Tom NJ

+1

 

[BrianWC]

I saw results running a 3 ounce maint dose mixed with what one would suspect to be fairly polar oils-a mix of M1 10W30 and 15W50. If two polar compounds are fighting for metal, does the stronger one win?

Does heat have an effect? How is polarity measured? Any of you gurus have the ability to compare the relative polarity of oils?

 

[addyguy]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
I can feel a GA written ensemble coming on soon

Go for it, Gary. Let 'im have it!

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: BrianWC
Does heat have an effect? How is polarity measured? Any of you gurus have the ability to compare the relative polarity of oils?

Heat makes solvents do a better job of dissolving things. I'm not sure if it affects which polar molecule type wins the competition to do so.

The relative polarity of oils can be tested with an aniline point test. I had three different Mobil 1 oils tested by one of our fellow forum members, free of charge! M1 0W-40, 5W-40 TDT, and 10W-30 High Mileage. The 5W-40 was least polar by a somewhat small amount while the other two were about the same. All three were quite low in polarity compared to values published for even Group III base oils, let alone pure esters. Because of that, I wondered then and still do if the additive package decreases polarity, at least in the aniline point test. If you want to know the measured aniline points of the three oils, let me know.

 

[JonnyHotcakes]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I've heard the Cononco blenders take a special cut off the hydrocracker to get polarized base oils for the Motorcraft product.


Brad Penn claims something similar:

"BRAD PENN® Penn Grade 1® High Performance Oils are formulated using a unique base oil cut from our tower, which gives our Penn Grade 1® High Performance Oils exceptional film strength. This unique base oil causes our Penn Grade 1®High Performance Oil to cling tenaciously to engine parts to minimize wear during high engine torque loading and/or periods of heavily stressed operation such as those experienced during competition. This same oil ‘cling’ helps prevent ‘dry-start’ conditions to minimize wear even after the engine has been sitting idle for extended periods."

 

[benjamming]

Originally Posted By: JAG
If you want to know the measured aniline points of the three oils, let me know.


I do.

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: JAG
If you want to know the measured aniline points of the three oils, let me know.

I do.

Here you go. These tests were done about 2 years ago and the M1 TDT was of CI-4+ formulation.

Mobil 1 Aniline measurements:

5W-40 TDT (Turbo Diesel Truck): 276F
0W-40: 254F
10W-30 High Mileage: 248F

For comparison, Mobil's SpectraSyn Plus PAO of 6 cst viscosity has an aniline point of 257F. The data sheets here provide that data for many of their fluids: http://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/Public...adeOverview.asp