Got caught my first time!

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22
Hi BITOG’ers, thanks for this site and all the knowledge you’ve shared. You can skip this paragraph and the next two if you just want to get to the oil recommendations part. I came across this site while researching what oil to put in my boat engine, and went way down the rabbit hole reading a ton and losing a bunch of sleep on here over the last week (yes I’m an engineer, ha). Now I know way more than I ever thought I would about oil, although my brain can only assimilate so much knowledge in a week and I’ve just scratched the surface.

Based on what I’ve read, I went to buy some non-manufacturer recommended oils today for my cars. I made the mistake of answering what vehicle I was getting oil for when the oil stocker asked. I had to listen to him go on about how cars in Europe are made differently, engineers know what spec is best (as if engineers ever get to make the final call on business decisions), etc. I got a blank stare when I tried telling him about different additive packs, how viscosity changes with temp, etc. He did agree that it probably wasn’t in an automotive company’s best interests for your vehicles to last a long time. I waited until he started talking to another customer, then grabbed the oils I wanted and hightailed it out of there. It’s funny, it felt sneaking a cookie out of the cookie jar or stealing something.

My wife is also skeptical of doing something different than what the manufacturers say, and isn’t on board with me changing her Toyota Sienna’s oil yet. So I’m hoping I can get some validation from you all on what I selected, or some correction if I’m off the mark. Here’s my plan for vehicles and boat.

Overall objectives: Minimize wear on my vehicles for maximum life, while also balancing oil and gas costs
Location: Washington state


Vehicle: 2012 Ford Expedition
- Mileage: ~200K
- Use: Hardest usage is as a tow vehicle for a 4k or 5k pound boat and trailer. I also try to drive it once a week when it’s not boating season. It only sees a few thousand miles per year, but works hard towing a boat over passes.
- Oil: 0w40 Mobile 1 FS. I thought the Mobil 1 would hold up well in a towing environment, but hopefully not decrease gas mileage or power noticeably since it’s a pretty light 40 weight.


Vehicle: 2007 Ford Freestyle
- Mileage: ~125K
- Use: Daily commuter, get 6 to 8K miles a year
- Oil: I wanted to get Quaker State 5w30 UD, but they only had 5w40 UD or 10w30 UD. I grabbed the 5w40, but may return it and go to another location that has 5w30 UD.

Boat motor: 2009 Yamaha F150
- Useage: Typically low hours, ~50 or so a season. Boat mostly cruises at ~4500 rpm, as well as some time at 5900 rpm to blow things out, and some low sped trolling. - The boat is heavy and the motor is pretty loaded. It sometimes sits for several months in the winter without being run
- Oil: Schaeffer’s 5w40 OTR plus. Specs on this look similar to Rotella T6 which many use successfully in outboards. Schaeffer oil seems to have a rep for being high quality and holding up very well. Plus their moly cocktail sounds really cool. I like the idea of a protective layer being built up to prevent corrosion and protect against wear when the boat is fired up cold after sitting for a while. I'm not sure if their moly works as advertised or if it's just a good sales pitch. This oil may be overkill due to the low number of hours it sees, but I’m more concerned about preventing any corrosion or other buildup in it, as well as avoiding wear when it’s started.

As an aside, I looked at the marine rated FW-C oils, and those jokers share basically nothing about their oils. It’s pretty much a jedi mind trick they’re pulling: “trust us, this oil is what your engine needs.” Unless they decide to be more transparent or I see more VOAs/UOAs on them, I’m not going to risk paying a premium for what may be crappy, cheap oil.

The oils I picked seem to have strong additive packs (moly, ZDDP, etc.), decent HTHS and TBN levels, are known performers with good reputations, and are relatively inexpensive. Please let me know if you think these are decent picks, or if I should be listening to my wife and the oil jockey to stick with manufacturer specs. Do I need to worry about oil film thickness or strength on any of these, especially the boat which may sit for months? Thanks in advance!
 
Messages
1,952
Location
Muncie, Indiana
0w40 should be a fine choice in the truck, I'd probably stick with oil that was made for marine applications in a boat, the 3L duratec will run fine on 5w40 but I don't think there's really much reason to go above Xw30 seeing how they run just fine with 5w20, I haven't heard anything about them failing due to lubrication problems the biggest issue with the 3.0L duratec is the cam cap bolts backing out with age. In the Sienna I'd stick with whatever is recommended but if you feel like 0w-20 is too thin you can step up to 5w30, Toyota only Requires an ILSAC rated multi-grade oil and says that a thicker oil can be used under heavy loads so 5w30 is permitted.
 
Messages
412
Location
None
Id say any brand name oil and an adequate OCI is enough. Engines rarely go wrong these days unless there is a known issue in specific models. You should probably keep an eye on the other things such as cooling system, transmission, belts/chains and turbo if applicable. Since you tow id definitely go thicker, everything else id just put any 30 weight oil.
 
Messages
140
Location
Massachusetts
Man just use whatever feels right to you, it will probably be fine no matter what. It's completely okay to go thicker so long as it's not stupid thick or too thick of winter rating for your climate. The worst that could theoretically happen is a VVT code but I've never actually seen that happen IRL.

0w40/5w40 is a great choice for towing/heavy usage, outside of that an ILSAC 5w30 is all around good for maximal wear protection and decent mpg.
 

Fish Stalker

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Messages
22
Thanks for the replies everyone. Bluefeb95, why would you stick with marine rated oil? I haven't found anywhere that actually gives technical reasons or data showing what they contain that makes them better for boat engines. But I have seen posts here showing that the base oil for Yamalube isn't great, and that marine oils seem to be diesel oils re-branded for marine use and charged at a premium.
 

Fish Stalker

Thread starter
Messages
22
Seems like the jedi mind trick works on some of you. I'd have no problem paying for marine-rated oil if there was any technical data anywhere of why it's better, or at least not worse, than a good diesel oil. Yamaha and others don't even do spec sheets on their oil. They just say this stuff is great, you need it, buy it. And if anyone here has facts to support that assertion, I would love to hear them!
 
Messages
481
Location
Florida
Use what the manufacturer recommends. Synthetic API certified right off Walmart's shelf. Brand of oil is not as important as maintenance.
 
Messages
17,579
Location
Upper Midwest
Seems like the jedi mind trick works on some of you. I'd have no problem paying for marine-rated oil if there was any technical data anywhere of why it's better, or at least not worse, than a good diesel oil. Yamaha and others don't even do spec sheets on their oil. They just say this stuff is great, you need it, buy it. And if anyone here has facts to support that assertion, I would love to hear them!
Kind of like what people are doing here for their favorite brand of oil. The only difference is they’re not the manufacturer of the engine.
 
Messages
1,001
Location
montreal ,canada
Kind of like what people are doing here for their favorite brand of oil. The only difference is they’re not the manufacturer of the engine.
Yes, but you don't have to be an engine manufacturer to recommend an engine oil. As long as the recommendation is within the scope of the application. You can be brand biased and still give sound advice.
 

Fish Stalker

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Messages
22
kschachan, the full recommendation from Yamaha is below. They don't recommend only the FC-W rated. And there are multiple conflicts of interest in play if you just get yamalube: 1) why should they make a great oil if an OK one will protect their engines fine and increase their profits?, and 2) it's not in their best interests for your engine to stay in great condition for 20 or 30 years, because then you won't buy another one from them until then.

Recommended engine oil:
YAMALUBE 4M FC-W or 4-stroke
outboard motor oil
Recommended engine oil grade 1:
SAE 10W-30/10W-40/5W-30
API SE/SF/SG/SH/SJ/SL
Recommended engine oil grade 2:
SAE 15W-40/20W-40/20W-50
API SH/SJ/SL

Seems like most people here say my choices are fine, and I haven't heard any technical concerns with them. I'm all ears if there are any. If not, thank you all for responding.
 
Messages
17,579
Location
Upper Midwest
Sure thing. I still wouldn’t use an oil without actual FC-W approval but it’s not my motor, right?

And the tired old “they only care until the warranty runs out” argument is neither relevant nor true. Are you saying an oil with FC-W approval is inferior?

Plenty of them to chose from if you have some sort of aversion to the Yamaha branded oil:

 

Fish Stalker

Thread starter
Messages
22
I'm saying I haven't been able to find any data to say whether or not FC-W oils are any good. I already went through the full list of FC-Ws and couldn't find a detailed tech sheet or info on any of them. Seems sketchy. They're probably decent oils, but why are they keeping everyone in the dark? It seems standard for the leading oil makers in every other category to be more forthcoming with their products. This thread on bitog indicates yamalube is not great oil: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/voa-yamalube.262583/

Do you have any technical info on what is in FC-W oils that I might be missing in the Schaeffer 5w40 OTR plus? I'm very interested if you do. From my research, I think Schaeffer is a better oil for my outboard. But as I said in the opening post, I'm an oil newbie and was hoping for the experts here to set me straight if I'm overlooking something. I need data though, I'm not gonna buy the "manufacturers know best" or "you have to go by the certs" arguments. Thanks.
 

Fish Stalker

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Specifically, does anyone know what extra "metal deactivators and rust preventive additives", if any, are in FC-Ws? Would this be something other than moly, ZDDP, boron, calcium, and magnesium additives that show up on VOAs? If there is something unique and additional that would help prevent corrosion more than a high quality diesel oil does, that would make me lean towards an FC-W. But I've read there isn't anything different in it...
 
Messages
17,579
Location
Upper Midwest
I'm saying I haven't been able to find any data to say whether or not FC-W oils are any good. I already went through the full list of FC-Ws and couldn't find a detailed tech sheet or info on any of them. Seems sketchy. They're probably decent oils, but why are they keeping everyone in the dark? It seems standard for the leading oil makers in every other category to be more forthcoming with their products. This thread on bitog indicates yamalube is not great oil: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/voa-yamalube.262583/

Do you have any technical info on what is in FC-W oils that I might be missing in the Schaeffer 5w40 OTR plus? I'm very interested if you do. From my research, I think Schaeffer is a better oil for my outboard. But as I said in the opening post, I'm an oil newbie and was hoping for the experts here to set me straight if I'm overlooking something. I need data though, I'm not gonna buy the "manufacturers know best" or "you have to go by the certs" arguments. Thanks.
There is nothing sketchy about a marine oil that carries a marine license. Where do people dig this stuff up?

Given the numerous posts that wish to put unsubstantiated Internet recommendations and testimonials against an industry standard, I'd suggest that you do as you wish as I'm not sure any other suggestion or recommendation would be accepted.
 
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