Got caught my first time!

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3,399
Location
BC, Canada
Thanks guys, I read that paper’s abstract and will check out those links later. The abstract talked about high ZDDP being good to protect boat engines, but bad on car catalytic converters. Like I mentioned earlier, Yamaha still says it is acceptable to use API oils in the engine. If API is OK, wouldn’t a diesel be better with its higher HTHS and more anti-corrosion additives and detergents? If I read old threads correctly, CAFE and LSPI concerns caused auto oils to change and be less suitable for boat engines, which drove the marine guys to do the FC-W label. But I still haven’t heard a reason other than “trust the manufacturer” for why a strong diesel is a bad choice for a marine application, or what the differences between a marine and diesel oil are.
Like Tom NJ posted, the OEMs had to put something in place to protect themselves (from boat owners from using convienance store 10w30??).
Most automotive 10w30s are slightly lacking in the HTHS department. Most boat owners would not know the difference between a PCMO and HDEO. Not to mention the new FA fuel economy 10w30 HDEO.

The Vanderbilt web site lists several antioxidents for engine oil.

For some reason www.aftonchemical.com didn't light up on my last post.
 
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18,145
Location
Upper Midwest
Thanks guys, I read that paper’s abstract and will check out those links later. The abstract talked about high ZDDP being good to protect boat engines, but bad on car catalytic converters. Like I mentioned earlier, Yamaha still says it is acceptable to use API oils in the engine. If API is OK, wouldn’t a diesel be better with its higher HTHS and more anti-corrosion additives and detergents? If I read old threads correctly, CAFE and LSPI concerns caused auto oils to change and be less suitable for boat engines, which drove the marine guys to do the FC-W label. But I still haven’t heard a reason other than “trust the manufacturer” for why a strong diesel is a bad choice for a marine application, or what the differences between a marine and diesel oil are.
This is about the fifth or sixth time you’ve stated that question despite overwhelming responses that apparently you don’t like.
 
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My only opinion about marine engine oils is that you are operating at high speeds compared to automotive or Diesel engines for long periods of time. Add to that the exposure to water, salt and other factors. Corrosion protection is paramount.

This is a Yamaha outboard. Why not run Yamalube or a comparative brand of oil specified for this use?
 

Fish Stalker

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Why not run Yamalube or a comparative brand of oil specified for this use?
Multiple posters over years on this board have said Yamalube is just an OK oil charging a premium price. I posted a link to one of those threads earlier. If I can get a better oil and pay less, that seems to be a better choice. But some of the posters on this thread thinks there’s a lot of value in the new FC-W cert, although they don’t know or haven’t shared details on what goes into a marine oil that isn’t in a diesel oil. Is there a spec besides HTHS that indicates an oil’s ability to resist shearing under heavy loads? FC-W only requires 3.3 after 30 shear cycles. No idea what the marine oils actually have since they don’t share anything.

Another question, salt and water exposure should only come up in failure conditions or if you get enough water in your gas that some gets through all your filters, right? Gas and oil should both be closed systems, with salt water flowing through the cooling passages.
 
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Another question, salt and water exposure should only come up in failure conditions or if you get enough water in your gas that some gets through all your filters, right? Gas and oil should both be closed systems, with salt water flowing through the cooling passages.

Theoretically yes, until it isn’t. Your outboard requires diligent maintenance and checking of components and systems to operate properly and run for a long time. Proper flushing after use, checking the anodes on a scheduled basis, etc.

I’m sure the manual covers all this.
 
Messages
3,399
Location
BC, Canada
Multiple posters over years on this board have said Yamalube is just an OK oil charging a premium price. I posted a link to one of those threads earlier. If I can get a better oil and pay less, that seems to be a better choice. But some of the posters on this thread thinks there’s a lot of value in the new FC-W cert, although they don’t know or haven’t shared details on what goes into a marine oil that isn’t in a diesel oil. Is there a spec besides HTHS that indicates an oil’s ability to resist shearing under heavy loads? FC-W only requires 3.3 after 30 shear cycles. No idea what the marine oils actually have since they don’t share anything.

Another question, salt and water exposure should only come up in failure conditions or if you get enough water in your gas that some gets through all your filters, right? Gas and oil should both be closed systems, with salt water flowing through the cooling passages.
My only opinion about marine engine oils is that you are operating at high speeds compared to automotive or Diesel engines for long periods of time. Add to that the exposure to water, salt and other factors. Corrosion protection is paramount.

This is a Yamaha outboard. Why not run Yamalube or a comparative brand of oil specified for this use?
Yamalube has a few more mark-ups along the way to the consumer, just like their motorcycle, PWC and snowmobile lubricants.

I belive that the so called unique operating environment of the high speed gasoline outboard engine came from a room full of
over active imaginations and logical slippery slope fallacies.
High speed (RPM) is not hard on lubricants. We're not talking 12,000 rpm and a thousand pounds of valve spring pressure here.
The engines are worked to their rated power, sometimes for hours on end. No different from any other industrial engine.
Unlike short tripped daily driver personal light trucks and cars experience, water and fuel that would otherwise accumulate in the engine oil is "burned off" every outing.
Yes, a used oil minimum HTHS matters, but putting a ZDDP and SAPS target is old fashioned on emission controlled engines.
 

Fish Stalker

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That’s interesting, user friendly. I don’t run at full throttle for long periods and typically run at 75% or so throttle for an hour or less, so I agree the loads probably aren’t a big deal. Our water is only in the 40s or 50s and keeps the engine pretty cold, so I don’t think it would be hot enough to burn off any fuel or water in the oil
 
Messages
3,399
Location
BC, Canada
That’s interesting, user friendly. I don’t run at full throttle for long periods and typically run at 75% or so throttle for an hour or less, so I agree the loads probably aren’t a big deal. Our water is only in the 40s or 50s and keeps the engine pretty cold, so I don’t think it would be hot enough to burn off any fuel or water in the oil
Oil temperature is more dependent on rpm than load, ambient or coolant temperatures.
The fastest way to warm up engine oil is to rev up the engine.
Nevertheless, nobdy has revealed the secret ingredient in marine engine oils that are not present in HDMO or PCMOs.
 
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3,399
Location
BC, Canada
Am I reading the test right? They put a piece of metal coated with the test oil in a salt fog cabinet to replicate an engine out at sea.
Pass or fail is determined by the amount of rust on the test metal strip.
First of all, the intake manifold and intake ports are aluminum and are not oiled as the engine sucks in sea air.
Secondly. combustion creates water which will wash any said sea salt from the engine.
The crank case is pressurized under load from blow-by which is mostly water vapor.

Did I read Noack must be less than 22%?
Back in the day evaporating light ends to keep an oil (especially a group one full of VIIs) from shearing out of grade was intentional.
 
Messages
3,339
Location
Richmond, VA
My wife is also skeptical of doing something different than what the manufacturers say, and isn’t on board with me changing her Toyota Sienna’s oil yet. So I’m hoping I can get some validation from you all on what I selected and protect against wear when the boat is fired up cold after sitting for a while.

I am not smart enough to be an engineer. I have changed my own oil for the past 32 years with absolutely 0 problems, usually using the cheapest brand name oil that I can find with the correct viscosity.
 
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