Got caught my first time!

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Thanks guys, I read that paper’s abstract and will check out those links later. The abstract talked about high ZDDP being good to protect boat engines, but bad on car catalytic converters. Like I mentioned earlier, Yamaha still says it is acceptable to use API oils in the engine. If API is OK, wouldn’t a diesel be better with its higher HTHS and more anti-corrosion additives and detergents? If I read old threads correctly, CAFE and LSPI concerns caused auto oils to change and be less suitable for boat engines, which drove the marine guys to do the FC-W label. But I still haven’t heard a reason other than “trust the manufacturer” for why a strong diesel is a bad choice for a marine application, or what the differences between a marine and diesel oil are.
Like Tom NJ posted, the OEMs had to put something in place to protect themselves (from boat owners from using convienance store 10w30??).
Most automotive 10w30s are slightly lacking in the HTHS department. Most boat owners would not know the difference between a PCMO and HDEO. Not to mention the new FA fuel economy 10w30 HDEO.

The Vanderbilt web site lists several antioxidents for engine oil.

For some reason www.aftonchemical.com didn't light up on my last post.
 
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Thanks guys, I read that paper’s abstract and will check out those links later. The abstract talked about high ZDDP being good to protect boat engines, but bad on car catalytic converters. Like I mentioned earlier, Yamaha still says it is acceptable to use API oils in the engine. If API is OK, wouldn’t a diesel be better with its higher HTHS and more anti-corrosion additives and detergents? If I read old threads correctly, CAFE and LSPI concerns caused auto oils to change and be less suitable for boat engines, which drove the marine guys to do the FC-W label. But I still haven’t heard a reason other than “trust the manufacturer” for why a strong diesel is a bad choice for a marine application, or what the differences between a marine and diesel oil are.
This is about the fifth or sixth time you’ve stated that question despite overwhelming responses that apparently you don’t like.
 
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My only opinion about marine engine oils is that you are operating at high speeds compared to automotive or Diesel engines for long periods of time. Add to that the exposure to water, salt and other factors. Corrosion protection is paramount.

This is a Yamaha outboard. Why not run Yamalube or a comparative brand of oil specified for this use?
 

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Why not run Yamalube or a comparative brand of oil specified for this use?
Multiple posters over years on this board have said Yamalube is just an OK oil charging a premium price. I posted a link to one of those threads earlier. If I can get a better oil and pay less, that seems to be a better choice. But some of the posters on this thread thinks there’s a lot of value in the new FC-W cert, although they don’t know or haven’t shared details on what goes into a marine oil that isn’t in a diesel oil. Is there a spec besides HTHS that indicates an oil’s ability to resist shearing under heavy loads? FC-W only requires 3.3 after 30 shear cycles. No idea what the marine oils actually have since they don’t share anything.

Another question, salt and water exposure should only come up in failure conditions or if you get enough water in your gas that some gets through all your filters, right? Gas and oil should both be closed systems, with salt water flowing through the cooling passages.
 
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Another question, salt and water exposure should only come up in failure conditions or if you get enough water in your gas that some gets through all your filters, right? Gas and oil should both be closed systems, with salt water flowing through the cooling passages.

Theoretically yes, until it isn’t. Your outboard requires diligent maintenance and checking of components and systems to operate properly and run for a long time. Proper flushing after use, checking the anodes on a scheduled basis, etc.

I’m sure the manual covers all this.
 
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Multiple posters over years on this board have said Yamalube is just an OK oil charging a premium price. I posted a link to one of those threads earlier. If I can get a better oil and pay less, that seems to be a better choice. But some of the posters on this thread thinks there’s a lot of value in the new FC-W cert, although they don’t know or haven’t shared details on what goes into a marine oil that isn’t in a diesel oil. Is there a spec besides HTHS that indicates an oil’s ability to resist shearing under heavy loads? FC-W only requires 3.3 after 30 shear cycles. No idea what the marine oils actually have since they don’t share anything.

Another question, salt and water exposure should only come up in failure conditions or if you get enough water in your gas that some gets through all your filters, right? Gas and oil should both be closed systems, with salt water flowing through the cooling passages.
My only opinion about marine engine oils is that you are operating at high speeds compared to automotive or Diesel engines for long periods of time. Add to that the exposure to water, salt and other factors. Corrosion protection is paramount.

This is a Yamaha outboard. Why not run Yamalube or a comparative brand of oil specified for this use?
Yamalube has a few more mark-ups along the way to the consumer, just like their motorcycle, PWC and snowmobile lubricants.

I belive that the so called unique operating environment of the high speed gasoline outboard engine came from a room full of
over active imaginations and logical slippery slope fallacies.
High speed (RPM) is not hard on lubricants. We're not talking 12,000 rpm and a thousand pounds of valve spring pressure here.
The engines are worked to their rated power, sometimes for hours on end. No different from any other industrial engine.
Unlike short tripped daily driver personal light trucks and cars experience, water and fuel that would otherwise accumulate in the engine oil is "burned off" every outing.
Yes, a used oil minimum HTHS matters, but putting a ZDDP and SAPS target is old fashioned on emission controlled engines.
 

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That’s interesting, user friendly. I don’t run at full throttle for long periods and typically run at 75% or so throttle for an hour or less, so I agree the loads probably aren’t a big deal. Our water is only in the 40s or 50s and keeps the engine pretty cold, so I don’t think it would be hot enough to burn off any fuel or water in the oil
 
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That’s interesting, user friendly. I don’t run at full throttle for long periods and typically run at 75% or so throttle for an hour or less, so I agree the loads probably aren’t a big deal. Our water is only in the 40s or 50s and keeps the engine pretty cold, so I don’t think it would be hot enough to burn off any fuel or water in the oil
Oil temperature is more dependent on rpm than load, ambient or coolant temperatures.
The fastest way to warm up engine oil is to rev up the engine.
Nevertheless, nobdy has revealed the secret ingredient in marine engine oils that are not present in HDMO or PCMOs.
 
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Am I reading the test right? They put a piece of metal coated with the test oil in a salt fog cabinet to replicate an engine out at sea.
Pass or fail is determined by the amount of rust on the test metal strip.
First of all, the intake manifold and intake ports are aluminum and are not oiled as the engine sucks in sea air.
Secondly. combustion creates water which will wash any said sea salt from the engine.
The crank case is pressurized under load from blow-by which is mostly water vapor.

Did I read Noack must be less than 22%?
Back in the day evaporating light ends to keep an oil (especially a group one full of VIIs) from shearing out of grade was intentional.
 
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My wife is also skeptical of doing something different than what the manufacturers say, and isn’t on board with me changing her Toyota Sienna’s oil yet. So I’m hoping I can get some validation from you all on what I selected and protect against wear when the boat is fired up cold after sitting for a while.

I am not smart enough to be an engineer. I have changed my own oil for the past 32 years with absolutely 0 problems, usually using the cheapest brand name oil that I can find with the correct viscosity.
 
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Hi BITOG’ers, thanks for this site and all the knowledge you’ve shared. You can skip this paragraph and the next two if you just want to get to the oil recommendations part. I came across this site while researching what oil to put in my boat engine, and went way down the rabbit hole reading a ton and losing a bunch of sleep on here over the last week (yes I’m an engineer, ha). Now I know way more than I ever thought I would about oil, although my brain can only assimilate so much knowledge in a week and I’ve just scratched the surface.

Based on what I’ve read, I went to buy some non-manufacturer recommended oils today for my cars. I made the mistake of answering what vehicle I was getting oil for when the oil stocker asked. I had to listen to him go on about how cars in Europe are made differently, engineers know what spec is best (as if engineers ever get to make the final call on business decisions), etc. I got a blank stare when I tried telling him about different additive packs, how viscosity changes with temp, etc. He did agree that it probably wasn’t in an automotive company’s best interests for your vehicles to last a long time. I waited until he started talking to another customer, then grabbed the oils I wanted and hightailed it out of there. It’s funny, it felt sneaking a cookie out of the cookie jar or stealing something.

My wife is also skeptical of doing something different than what the manufacturers say, and isn’t on board with me changing her Toyota Sienna’s oil yet. So I’m hoping I can get some validation from you all on what I selected, or some correction if I’m off the mark. Here’s my plan for vehicles and boat.

Overall objectives: Minimize wear on my vehicles for maximum life, while also balancing oil and gas costs
Location: Washington state


Vehicle: 2012 Ford Expedition
- Mileage: ~200K
- Use: Hardest usage is as a tow vehicle for a 4k or 5k pound boat and trailer. I also try to drive it once a week when it’s not boating season. It only sees a few thousand miles per year, but works hard towing a boat over passes.
- Oil: 0w40 Mobile 1 FS. I thought the Mobil 1 would hold up well in a towing environment, but hopefully not decrease gas mileage or power noticeably since it’s a pretty light 40 weight.


Vehicle: 2007 Ford Freestyle
- Mileage: ~125K
- Use: Daily commuter, get 6 to 8K miles a year
- Oil: I wanted to get Quaker State 5w30 UD, but they only had 5w40 UD or 10w30 UD. I grabbed the 5w40, but may return it and go to another location that has 5w30 UD.

Boat motor: 2009 Yamaha F150
- Useage: Typically low hours, ~50 or so a season. Boat mostly cruises at ~4500 rpm, as well as some time at 5900 rpm to blow things out, and some low sped trolling. - The boat is heavy and the motor is pretty loaded. It sometimes sits for several months in the winter without being run
- Oil: Schaeffer’s 5w40 OTR plus. Specs on this look similar to Rotella T6 which many use successfully in outboards. Schaeffer oil seems to have a rep for being high quality and holding up very well. Plus their moly cocktail sounds really cool. I like the idea of a protective layer being built up to prevent corrosion and protect against wear when the boat is fired up cold after sitting for a while. I'm not sure if their moly works as advertised or if it's just a good sales pitch. This oil may be overkill due to the low number of hours it sees, but I’m more concerned about preventing any corrosion or other buildup in it, as well as avoiding wear when it’s started.

As an aside, I looked at the marine rated FW-C oils, and those jokers share basically nothing about their oils. It’s pretty much a jedi mind trick they’re pulling: “trust us, this oil is what your engine needs.” Unless they decide to be more transparent or I see more VOAs/UOAs on them, I’m not going to risk paying a premium for what may be crappy, cheap oil.

The oils I picked seem to have strong additive packs (moly, ZDDP, etc.), decent HTHS and TBN levels, are known performers with good reputations, and are relatively inexpensive. Please let me know if you think these are decent picks, or if I should be listening to my wife and the oil jockey to stick with manufacturer specs. Do I need to worry about oil film thickness or strength on any of these, especially the boat which may sit for months? Thanks in advance!
I matched NAPA 15-40 Universal Fleet to the Yamalube and never looked back. Blackstone rep that I talked to said it would be a good oil to use as it was made for NAPA by Valvoline. Changed at 50 hours and when I sold it it was at 500 hours and never a problem. They are flat tappet engines and need the extra ZDDP, most deisel oil will work fine.
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kschachan, the full recommendation from Yamaha is below. They don't recommend only the FC-W rated. And there are multiple conflicts of interest in play if you just get yamalube: 1) why should they make a great oil if an OK one will protect their engines fine and increase their profits?, and 2) it's not in their best interests for your engine to stay in great condition for 20 or 30 years, because then you won't buy another one from them until then.

Recommended engine oil:
YAMALUBE 4M FC-W or 4-stroke
outboard motor oil
Recommended engine oil grade 1:
SAE 10W-30/10W-40/5W-30
API SE/SF/SG/SH/SJ/SL
Recommended engine oil grade 2:
SAE 15W-40/20W-40/20W-50
API SH/SJ/SL

Seems like most people here say my choices are fine, and I haven't heard any technical concerns with them. I'm all ears if there are any. If not, thank you all for responding.
I think the important thing here is the SL oil recommendation. They are still used today in mowers, motorcycles etc. They have a good amount of Zinc and Phos.
 
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