Good YT video on trying to make something in the USA

[AZjeff]

@SC Maintenance, easy there I'm not ripping Kent bikes or you just making clear what they're doing. You said one step at a time as if they're on the way back to USA content and that's not true they're surviving. Kent bikes is a study of a company that started out producing bikes, USA products, and to survive now assembles Chinese parts for WM and other big box stores and sells Kent brand directly. For whatever reason they choose labor over automation although the wheel building machines are amazing to watch. Bicycles have been my thing forever and it's been sad to watch what has happened to the industry. Today you can buy expensive USA made frames and a few boutique USA made parts and that's it.

 

[SC Maintenance]

@SC Maintenance, easy there I'm not ripping Kent bikes or you just making clear what they're doing. You said one step at a time as if they're on the way back to USA content and that's not true they're surviving. Kent bikes is a study of a company that started out producing bikes, USA products, and to survive now assembles Chinese parts for WM and other big box stores and sells Kent brand directly. For whatever reason they choose labor over automation although the wheel building machines are amazing to watch. Bicycles have been my thing forever and it's been sad to watch what has happened to the industry. Today you can buy expensive USA made frames and a few boutique USA made parts and that's it.

Forgive me, but you made a big deal about it twice, and I and they are very specific about what they are doing.

So yes, I would be much happier to buy a cheap bicycle assembled by a South Carolina worker than a Chinese peasant, no disrespect intended to the Chinese person. Whatever labor they expend here is GDP positive here, even if putting together Chinese parts.

However back to your video. It is interesting, but its not what its claimed to be. This guy isn't trying to "build" a BBQ brush. He wants others to build all the parts so he can assemble it. He doesn't know anything about injection molding, or CNC, or metal stamping. He is up front about that, but to say no one can do this here is laughable. I can think of many in SC alone - Gestamp, Magna, Berry Plastics, Faurecia. They make thousands of stamped / molded or machined parts a day for BMW, Volvo, John Deere, GM, Ford etc. But no, there not job shops.

Your Youtube creator wants to do the exact same thing as Kent - assemble parts someone else makes.

To be honest I don't care if we ever make a bbq brush here, or a bicycle dereaulier . I can live without a BBQ brush. Derailleur maybe not, I am too old for a single speed.

 

[Vil_Riker]

To make something, you need an eco system of suppliers. And they have to be cost effective in order to be competitive.

Here is a guy that visited a small electric motor manufacturer somewhere in China. Look how many suppliers are in that small town making the parts that go into the electric motors.

And notice that none of the factory workers are "rural peasants".

 

[MVAR]

To make something, you need an eco system of suppliers. And they have to be cost effective in order to be competitive.

Here is a guy that visited a small electric motor manufacturer somewhere in China. Look how many suppliers are in that small town making the parts that go into the electric motors.

And notice that none of the factory workers are "rural peasants".

Have some experience with Chinese electric motor windings vs USA windings. China will pass the winding through a “waterfall” of varnish or through a tub via conveyor. The USA windings are soaked in vats to allow the varnish to penetrate the windings. There is a cost difference but not as significant as one might expect. The longevity difference is vast though, IME from having to warranty these motors at my families old pump company.

 

[Hohn]

The idea that everything needs to be made in America would be good for America is, well, not very smart.

It's true, but I'm not so sure about absolute free trade anymore. I learned economics the hard way-- autodidactically reading as much as I could, starting with Smith and working up through Ricardo, Malthus, Bastiat, Say, Von Mises, George, Keynes, Hayek, and stopping with Milton Friedman and Gary Becker.

There's always a challenge in adapting the certain theories that rely on reasonable assumptions that turn out to be wrong.

For example, economics as a discipline assumes a person is a rational actor-- the so-called Homo Economicus always concerning himself with efficiency and carefully weighing opportunity costs.

But that's where we encounter the first problem. People don't behave rationally. Either as individuals or as a group. This has been demonstrated many times, quite notably by the experiment of auctioning off a $20 bill. This always results in someone paying more than $20 for a $20 bill.

Gary Becker was pioneering a specialty he called "behavioral economics" which really focused on the insight that economics is really less about numbers and data and more about people; it's much closer to psychology and sociology than to accounting. Game theory more than macro theory.

The famous NY Taxi cab driver study also proved this. Since cab drivers were free to set their own driving hours and locations, they observed how the drivers decided how long to work. Now, traditional "ration actor" assumption was say that a cab driver would work the longest days when there is the most demand-- say, a rainy day or a major event like a conference or concert or sports event is driving up demand.

But what they found was that cab drivers instead typically set daily goals for revenue of $100 or $150 for the day and then they'd go home once they hit their quota. Of course, this practice had the opposite of effect of what a "rational optimizer" would do. The daily quota caused drivers to go home earlier on the busiest days when they could make the most money. And it caused them to stay later on the days when it wasn't worth it. In other words, the cab drivers had the habit that was the *opposite* of rational optimization. Why? Because we're human and we aren't rational and don't reason perfectly. We have emotions, habits, and biases.


I was able to find the Christopher Caldwell essay that caused me to question my reflexive and orthodox defense of unrestricted free trade. You might find it insightful as I did.

 

[thastinger]

Got any links to made-in-USA success stories? We're all ears.

I have two.
1. 1949 Farmall C tractor...still runs like a top and I can still get parts for it.
2. 1968 John Deere 3020 Diesel...mechanical injection diesel engine with 7K hours and runs like a top and I can still buy parts for it.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The idea that everything needs to be made in America would be good for America is, well, not very smart.

Yes, but no one says its an all or nothing decision.

 

[Pablo]

Yes, but no one says its an all or nothing decision.

As long as we strive and make a real effort, and now back to what the guy in the video did. Exactly that.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yes, but no one says its an all or nothing decision.

It seems we are in agreement.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Got any links to made-in-USA success stories? We're all ears.

China manufactures about 1/3 of the worlds goods. US does about 15%, then Japan with less than 7%. This is the problem, no one thinks we make anything, anymore, which is wrong.

I am sure there are lots of success stories. The top manufacturer in South Carolina by employment is BMW. Somehow the Germans can make stuff here but supposedly we cannot.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-global-share-of-manufacturing-value-by-country/

 

[benjamming]

Got any links to made-in-USA success stories? We're all ears.

Dearborn Denim making jeans in Chicago

 

[JeffKeryk]

Percentages are far too general to draw relevant conclusions. It is what is made, exported, etc. Margins are critical as is importantance. I laud the Chips Act, which re-onshores SEMI.

But there is a bigger problem, a roadblock. Unless we value education here, we will continue to cede the future to others, including our enemies.

 

[benjamming]

Percentages are far too general to draw relevant conclusions. It is what is made, exported, etc. Margins are critical as is importantance. I laud the Chips Act, which re-onshores SEMI.

But there is a bigger problem, a roadblock. Unless we value education here, we will continue to cede the future to others, including our enemies.

Yes, removing Department of Education won't hurt. There may be more differences then, but I suspect some will shine more than others rather than all being depressed. Although that won't be the panacea as there are a multitude of other factors, several of which are more impactful.

 

[4WD]

I am talking about the interference of the government in decisions where something will be made.
If GM failed, it would be too dangerous for the economy at that time. Germany also bailed out their European operations.
But I am talking generally about the American car industry. The American car industry became synonymous with poor quality a long time ago, and it never recovered. It is a synonym here; it is a synonym everywhere around the world. It did not get there because they were trying hard, but bcs. they were screwing over people thinking they can live on old glory forever.
So, while someone might be inclined to buy an American product in 2004, they will ask: wait, I have to buy American, but at the same time, Chrysler will deliver me an LHS with a transmission that will fail in 50k, and I should be feeling good about it?
Goes for everything else, dishwashers, TVs (how many US TV companies do we have?). That is actually fine.
The "Flock of Ducks," where the leading duck always jumps on new things, and those that follow take over technology, previously making the key variable of the leading duck (the country's economy). We were leaders in TV technology, then Germany, then Japan, and now it is Korea. Cars are the same, except we are leaders in EV technology. We move on to better, more sophisticated things and leave more rudimentary things to others.
The question is not why China makes screwes or shovels. The question is why a small town in the US that was making those things did not adapt to the new economic reality? Bcs. a lot of cities have flourished in the last 30 years. A lot lost, but recovered (Pittsburgh), and some never managed to get out of that death spiral.
And now we have AI coming. What will happen then? Sorry, but "we the people" won't help there unless "we the people" adapt to a new reality and stop thinking about making T-shirts.

We have 10,000 people grouped together that make 6 digit incomes - none of which even come to this site - a tiny fraction do their own maintenance …
And I can tell you unequivocally they don’t share your bias over Euro Euro Euro - a great deal of them lease and then replace Euro vehicles …

 

[BHopkins]

China manufactures about 1/3 of the worlds goods. US does about 15%, then Japan with less than 7%. This is the problem, no one thinks we make anything, anymore, which is wrong.

I am sure there are lots of success stories. The top manufacturer in South Carolina by employment is BMW. Somehow the Germans can make stuff here but supposedly we cannot.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-global-share-of-manufacturing-value-by-country/

And Toyota. And Volkswagen, Nisan, Mercedes, Honda, Subaru, just to name a few, all have significant manufacturing presence here in the USA. Someone may say, "well, yea, but they all include imported parts." To me, I don't understand the all or nothing mentality. I'm ok with Subaru using engines and transmissions built in Japan, for example.

I questioned that in the Smarter Every Day video. He was unhappy because he couldn't get USA made screws. Personally, I don't see a problem with that. Let China or Taiwan make simple components for us to use in building Made in USA products.

It seems very unrealistic to believe that any single nation, even one as blessed with multiple resources as the USA, should expect to produce all it's own products with all USA materials.

 

[KenshinHimura]

Got any links to made-in-USA success stories? We're all ears.

Channellock, Wright Tool, Chapman MFG, Weathertech, Turbo/Rocketsocket, Bully Tools
https://www.hudsonbearings.com/history/
https://chapmanmfg.com/pages/copy-of-chapman-history
https://www.wrighttool.com/about#made_in_the_usa
https://www.weathertech.com/about-us.html
https://www.channellock.com/history/
https://bullytools.com/about-us/

 

[BHopkins]

Got any links to made-in-USA success stories? We're all ears.

Lodge cookware and Henry rifles both come to mind. Pendleton blankets.

Before I retired, I visited a lot of automotive suppliers. Some in Canada and Mexico, but mostly here in the USA. All kinds of stamping, casting and fabrication businesses. Too many to list, scattered all over the Mid West.

 

[RDY4WAR]

And Toyota. And Volkswagen, Nisan, Mercedes, Honda, Subaru, just to name a few, all have significant manufacturing presence here in the USA. Someone may say, "well, yea, but they all include imported parts." To me, I don't understand the all or nothing mentality. I'm ok with Subaru using engines and transmissions built in Japan, for example.

I questioned that in the Smarter Every Day video. He was unhappy because he couldn't get USA made screws. Personally, I don't see a problem with that. Let China or Taiwan make simple components for us to use in building Made in USA products.

It seems very unrealistic to believe that any single nation, even one as blessed with multiple resources as the USA, should expect to produce all it's own products with all USA materials.

What happens if we end up going to war with China and are cutoff from that foreign manufacturing? We'd be screwed. (pun intended) It would take us much longer to ramp up manufacturing to support our military and local economy in a protracted war. China already has the tool and die, as well as the intellect. It's hard enough just to get US sourced raw materials like steel and aluminum.

Do you trust those foreign car companies to convert their factories into wartime production of planes, tanks, etc... like Ford, GM, and others did in WWII? I don't.

 

[edyvw]

We have 10,000 people grouped together that make 6 digit incomes - none of which even come to this site - a tiny fraction do their own maintenance …
And I can tell you unequivocally they don’t share your bias over Euro Euro Euro - a great deal of them lease and then replace Euro vehicles …

I am not talking preference for vehicles. I would say the bankruptcy of GM and the total failure of Chrysler, whose only survival was an option to be sold, kind of speaks for itself.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Got any links to made-in-USA success stories? We're all ears.

I mentioned Nucor steel here on another thread like this. They formed out of a bankrupt auto company - some of the management bought a piece out of the bankruptcy filings. They were going to do something else but couldn't find decent steel so decided to start making their own in Darlington SC. They also implemented electric arc furnaces which people at the time said wouldn't work. There now the largest US steel producer.

I said that before and someone said "ya but they can only process recycled steel". Steel is infinitely recyclable, and we have lots of it. Talk about a glass half full crowd.