Good YT video on trying to make something in the USA

[SC Maintenance]

Having worked in a manufacturing plant that was shut down, when the production was moved to a sister plant in Mexico, I am always willing to buy American. But sometimes I feel that I am the only one on the bus.

An example is something as simple as garden tools - shovels, rakes, mattocks. There are Made in the USA garden tools available. But they are hard to find. Go to any of these American owned stores such as Ace, True Value, Lowes, Home Depot, and look at their garden tools. Almost everything will be made in Mexico or China. Find the right local gardening store, and they may carry Made in USA tools.

When I do find Made in the USA garden tools, I do pay a premium, but it isn't so much that I suspect the vast majority here can easily afford the difference.

But if there are so many of us that are willing to buy American, then why aren't American items more readily available? I'm sure that if customers would buy American, Lowes, Home Depot, and all the other retailers would have "Made in the USA" items proudly displayed, alongside the import items. But the fact that they don't tells us that when it comes down to it, the American consumer isn't as loyal to American products as they like to think they are.

Excellent advice.

I used to buy fishing gear at Bass Pro. They stopped selling USA made fishing lures and started selling a lot of Chinese knock off's (for the same price). I stopped going to Bass Pro. I either buy from small shops on ebay, or believe it or not Wal-Mart still sells a lot of USA made stuff.

Another thing - cheap Wal-Mart Kent bicycles are assembled in South Carolina. Yes, there using Chinese parts, but one step at a time.

https://www.centralsc.org/news/company-feature-kent-bca-bicycles

 

[BHopkins]

Excellent advice.

I used to buy fishing gear at Bass Pro. They stopped selling USA made fishing lures and started selling a lot of Chinese knock off's (for the same price). I stopped going to Bass Pro. I either buy from small shops on ebay, or believe it or not Wal-Mart still sells a lot of USA made stuff.

Another thing - cheap Wal-Mart Kent bicycles are assembled in South Carolina. Yes, there using Chinese parts, but one step at a time.

https://www.centralsc.org/news/company-feature-kent-bca-bicycles

I'm old enough to remember, when Sam Walton was still alive, that Made in the USA was a huge part of Walmart strategy. I still remember the displays in the Walmart stores, that would proudly proclaim that an items was American made. That all went away pretty quickly when his kids took over.

 

[edyvw]

If you don't know what I am talking about you don't understand global trade.

Our current account deficit (trade deficit including both goods and services) is negative $1T. Meaning we send $1T more money outside the country every year than we get back in trade.

So think about it. Where exactly do you think this money comes from? We either borrow it from off-shore, or print it (quantitative easing) devaluing our currency, or the banks can lever up and lend it here. All 3 are debt. Its the only way to run a perpetual current account deficit.

Government doesn’t buy consumer products for the most part. Cars etc. yes, and they are mostly domestic brands. Consumer products are bought by businesses. They must make money to buy it. Wal Mart cannot print money and buy it, or Costco for that matter. Deficit doesn’t mean we go broke. These companies also profit in foreign markets, tourism etc.
But, it is always interesting that people who talk all business, don’t mind government intervention as long as it benefits them. Some communism? Who cares.

 

[K-Man]

Got any links to made-in-USA success stories? We're all ears.

That's actually the point. There won't be any made-in-USA success stories if everyone listens to the naysayers.

There are large areas in the US with no towns that have any remaining industry. The furniture or clothing manufacturer, textile company, etc., went overseas so the corporate executives could buy another yacht. This should have been stopped 30–35 years ago. It wasn't.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Got any links to made-in-USA success stories? We're all ears.

I've said many times a key reason I bought our '18 Tesla Model 3 Mid Range was it was made right up the road in Fremont. Tesla got a sweetheart deal to reopen the ex-GM ex-NUMMI plant. Tesla is an American success story.

Lucid and Rivian EVs are also American made, but are not as successful. No EV is.

 

[Cujet]

Made in USA:

 

[Dave Hess]

Excellent advice.

I used to buy fishing gear at Bass Pro. They stopped selling USA made fishing lures and started selling a lot of Chinese knock off's (for the same price). I stopped going to Bass Pro. I either buy from small shops on ebay, or believe it or not Wal-Mart still sells a lot of USA made stuff.

Another thing - cheap Wal-Mart Kent bicycles are assembled in South Carolina. Yes, there using Chinese parts, but one step at a time.

https://www.centralsc.org/news/company-feature-kent-bca-bicycles

Schwinn moved factory from Chicago to Greenville, Mississippi and simply couldn’t produce a profitable bicycle.
Concrete slab of the Greenville factory can still be seen by Google satellite images.

Chicago built bicycles are considered a collectible.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Government doesn’t buy consumer products for the most part. Cars etc. yes, and they are mostly domestic brands. Consumer products are bought by businesses. They must make money to buy it. Wal Mart cannot print money and buy it, or Costco for that matter. Deficit doesn’t mean we go broke. These companies also profit in foreign markets, tourism etc.
But, it is always interesting that people who talk all business, don’t mind government intervention as long as it benefits them. Some communism? Who cares.

The government has nothing to do with it. The US trade deficit and the US budget deficit are two completely different things. Not understanding the difference is like discussing colors without knowing the difference between red or blue.

Fortunately here is a 3 minute tutorial which seems to be pretty good? https://www.tutor2u.net/economics/r...-between-a-fiscal-deficit-and-a-trade-deficit

The beauty of the trade deficit is we the people could solve it ourselves, without the governments involvement, if we simply stopped buying foreign goods. Easier said than done I know - but that is reality. We have done this to ourselves. Yet people want to keep making it political.

 

[AZjeff]

That's actually the point. There won't be any made-in-USA success stories if everyone listens to the naysayers.

You think someone with an idea for a USA made product would watch this video and say forget it? I'd say it's better to know what you're possibly up against early on. This is a very small uncomplicated product.

Did anyone watch any of the video or just go off on a tangent? He couldn't find USA made 1" long 1/4-20 stainless steel bolts. He couldn't source USA made molds to make one of the components. The chain mail he wanted to use instead of wire he found in the US but not in sufficient quantities so he sourced more from India and discovered it was made in China, shipped to India then here. Imagine trying to make a 100% USA cell phone.

About Kent bicycles mentioned above, the owner was on 60 minutes a couple of weeks ago. They aren't using some Chinese parts, it's all Chinese parts and they're assembling them to 80% or so to put in boxes to be finished at the retailer. He said a bike that sells for $100 at WalMart would have to sell for $1000 if it was 100% USA sourced. Which is currently impossible as there aren't any USA made bike parts.

The beauty of the trade deficit is we the people could solve it ourselves, without the governments involvement, if we simply stopped buying foreign goods. Easier said than done I know - but that is reality.

Not easier said than done, impossible. Let's say a company decides to produce shirts in the US with US cloth and buttons and machinery. IF the materials and tools can be found the workers who made the buttons and cloth and sewed the shirts couldn't afford to buy one.

If we all decided not to buy another cell phone until they're made in the USA how long would it be if a company decided today that was what they were going to do?

Point being it's just not going to happen quickly and not at all for some things.

 

[TumblrDucks]

Having worked in a manufacturing plant that was shut down, when the production was moved to a sister plant in Mexico, I am always willing to buy American. But sometimes I feel that I am the only one on the bus.

An example is something as simple as garden tools - shovels, rakes, mattocks. There are Made in the USA garden tools available. But they are hard to find. Go to any of these American owned stores such as Ace, True Value, Lowes, Home Depot, and look at their garden tools. Almost everything will be made in Mexico or China. Find the right local gardening store, and they may carry Made in USA tools.

When I do find Made in the USA garden tools, I do pay a premium, but it isn't so much that I suspect the vast majority here can easily afford the difference.

But if there are so many of us that are willing to buy American, then why aren't American items more readily available? I'm sure that if customers would buy American, Lowes, Home Depot, and all the other retailers would have "Made in the USA" items proudly displayed, alongside the import items. But the fact that they don't tells us that when it comes down to it, the American consumer isn't as loyal to American products as they like to think they are.

In my personal observation I do see some small cheap goods or produce are made in USA, but I don't have the data to prove how successful they are.

 

[SC Maintenance]

You think someone with an idea for a USA made product would watch this video and say forget it? I'd say it's better to know what you're possibly up against early on. This is a very small uncomplicated product.

Did anyone watch any of the video or just go off on a tangent? He couldn't find USA made 1" long 1/4-20 stainless steel bolts. He couldn't source USA made molds to make one of the components. The chain mail he wanted to use instead of wire he found in the US but not in sufficient quantities so he sourced more from India and discovered it was made in China, shipped to India then here. Imagine trying to make a 100% USA cell phone.

About Kent bicycles mentioned above, the owner was on 60 minutes a couple of weeks ago. They aren't using some Chinese parts, it's all Chinese parts and they're assembling them to 80% or so to put in boxes to be finished at the retailer. He said a bike that sells for $100 at WalMart would have to sell for $1000 if it was 100% USA sourced. Which is currently impossible as there aren't any USA made bike parts.



Not easier said than done, impossible. Let's say a company decides to produce shirts in the US with US cloth and buttons and machinery. IF the materials and tools can be found the workers who made the buttons and cloth and sewed the shirts couldn't afford to buy one.

If we all decided not to buy another cell phone until they're made in the USA how long would it be if a company decided today that was what they were going to do?

Point being it's just not going to happen quickly and not at all for some things.

This is a problem - everyone thinks in extremes. You don't need to make 100% USA. Were not Henry Ford. We just need to do $1T more and balance the trade deficit.

We should start with the stuff thats critical, and easy.

 

[AZjeff]

Agreed. This was a project to see if it could be done and the 100% USA is extreme but it’s what many are thinking should happen but would be exceedingly hard.

 

[ATex7239]

How about just not getting things from countries which openly hate us as a start.

 

[edyvw]

The government has nothing to do with it. The US trade deficit and the US budget deficit are two completely different things. Not understanding the difference is like discussing colors without knowing the difference between red or blue.

Fortunately here is a 3 minute tutorial which seems to be pretty good? https://www.tutor2u.net/economics/r...-between-a-fiscal-deficit-and-a-trade-deficit

The beauty of the trade deficit is we the people could solve it ourselves, without the governments involvement, if we simply stopped buying foreign goods. Easier said than done I know - but that is reality. We have done this to ourselves. Yet people want to keep making it political.

It is almost like I already wrote that. You will get there, you will...

I have no idea what you're talking about. Deficit and debt are two different things. Some parts of the economy have a deficit, some have a surplus. Some think it is outrageous to run a deficit on bananas or coffee. But here is their chance to grow it in the US. I bet some people wonder why their countries import GE jet engines, and why "they don't make it."

As for debt, well, we spend more than we collect in taxes. It is very simple.

I mean, you already know all this.
Ah "we the people." That goes both ways. The car industry is the best example. "We the people" were willing to support the American car industry. Problem was, they were kind of in business screwing up people.

 

[edyvw]

Having worked in a manufacturing plant that was shut down, when the production was moved to a sister plant in Mexico, I am always willing to buy American. But sometimes I feel that I am the only one on the bus.

An example is something as simple as garden tools - shovels, rakes, mattocks. There are Made in the USA garden tools available. But they are hard to find. Go to any of these American owned stores such as Ace, True Value, Lowes, Home Depot, and look at their garden tools. Almost everything will be made in Mexico or China. Find the right local gardening store, and they may carry Made in USA tools.

When I do find Made in the USA garden tools, I do pay a premium, but it isn't so much that I suspect the vast majority here can easily afford the difference.

But if there are so many of us that are willing to buy American, then why aren't American items more readily available? I'm sure that if customers would buy American, Lowes, Home Depot, and all the other retailers would have "Made in the USA" items proudly displayed, alongside the import items. But the fact that they don't tells us that when it comes down to it, the American consumer isn't as loyal to American products as they like to think they are.

To have economic patriotism to work, you need a two-way street. People were more than willing to support American car manufacturers and then they just gave up. People were buying them, bcs. patriotism, bcs. habit, but if you make junk persistently, then there will be a time when people will just give up.
Sorry, but Home Depot, etc. respond to shareholders. They want to maximize profit. If that means moving the production from China to the next best place, whether that is Vietnam etc. they will. They will not move production from Vietnam bcs. there is an attempt to buy American or because some call for it. Yeah, they might make some marketing trick, but that is about it. If it makes economic sense to make things in the US, they will make it.

 

[SC Maintenance]

It is almost like I already wrote that. You will get there, you will...

I have no idea about your idea of government buying stuff communism fits in? I think your trying to make it about something its not?

Ah "we the people." That goes both ways. The car industry is the best example. "We the people" were willing to support the American car industry. Problem was, they were kind of in business screwing up people.

Fair. But GM went bust because of it. And then the government bailed them out. So maybe thats what your talking about the government for? I would have let them stay bust if I had a vote, which I did not.

 

[4WD]

The government has nothing to do with it. The US trade deficit and the US budget deficit are two completely different things. Not understanding the difference is like discussing colors without knowing the difference between red or blue.

Fortunately here is a 3 minute tutorial which seems to be pretty good? https://www.tutor2u.net/economics/r...-between-a-fiscal-deficit-and-a-trade-deficit

The beauty of the trade deficit is we the people could solve it ourselves, without the governments involvement, if we simply stopped buying foreign goods. Easier said than done I know - but that is reality. We have done this to ourselves. Yet people want to keep making it political.

We need to share when it worked out - was a lifetime FluidMaster guy until 5 years ago when I realized that they went to China - Korky makes a great product at home for the same price … Still have those same kits in use …

 

[edyvw]

I have no idea about your idea of government buying stuff communism fits in? I think your trying to make it about something its not?


Fair. But GM went bust because of it. And then the government bailed them out. So maybe thats what your talking about the government for? I would have let them stay bust if I had a vote, which I did not.

I am talking about the interference of the government in decisions where something will be made.
If GM failed, it would be too dangerous for the economy at that time. Germany also bailed out their European operations.
But I am talking generally about the American car industry. The American car industry became synonymous with poor quality a long time ago, and it never recovered. It is a synonym here; it is a synonym everywhere around the world. It did not get there because they were trying hard, but bcs. they were screwing over people thinking they can live on old glory forever.
So, while someone might be inclined to buy an American product in 2004, they will ask: wait, I have to buy American, but at the same time, Chrysler will deliver me an LHS with a transmission that will fail in 50k, and I should be feeling good about it?
Goes for everything else, dishwashers, TVs (how many US TV companies do we have?). That is actually fine.
The "Flock of Ducks," where the leading duck always jumps on new things, and those that follow take over technology, previously making the key variable of the leading duck (the country's economy). We were leaders in TV technology, then Germany, then Japan, and now it is Korea. Cars are the same, except we are leaders in EV technology. We move on to better, more sophisticated things and leave more rudimentary things to others.
The question is not why China makes screwes or shovels. The question is why a small town in the US that was making those things did not adapt to the new economic reality? Bcs. a lot of cities have flourished in the last 30 years. A lot lost, but recovered (Pittsburgh), and some never managed to get out of that death spiral.
And now we have AI coming. What will happen then? Sorry, but "we the people" won't help there unless "we the people" adapt to a new reality and stop thinking about making T-shirts.

 

[Pablo]

I watched the video today. I was going to post it,

My commentary is I was this guy. 2008-2021. We made a serious effort to have as much made in the USA as possible- and succeeded with some custom parts, commodity bike parts it was impossible

Sadly there are still some knock offs of our original 2008 designs still being sold. Our later designs had hidden design details that were not successfully copied so there is always hope

 

[SC Maintenance]

I am talking about the interference of the government in decisions where something will be made.
If GM failed, it would be too dangerous for the economy at that time. Germany also bailed out their European operations.
But I am talking generally about the American car industry. The American car industry became synonymous with poor quality a long time ago, and it never recovered. It is a synonym here; it is a synonym everywhere around the world. It did not get there because they were trying hard, but bcs. they were screwing over people thinking they can live on old glory forever.
So, while someone might be inclined to buy an American product in 2004, they will ask: wait, I have to buy American, but at the same time, Chrysler will deliver me an LHS with a transmission that will fail in 50k, and I should be feeling good about it?
Goes for everything else, dishwashers, TVs (how many US TV companies do we have?). That is actually fine.
The "Flock of Ducks," where the leading duck always jumps on new things, and those that follow take over technology, previously making the key variable of the leading duck (the country's economy). We were leaders in TV technology, then Germany, then Japan, and now it is Korea. Cars are the same, except we are leaders in EV technology. We move on to better, more sophisticated things and leave more rudimentary things to others.
The question is not why China makes screwes or shovels. The question is why a small town in the US that was making those things did not adapt to the new economic reality? Bcs. a lot of cities have flourished in the last 30 years. A lot lost, but recovered (Pittsburgh), and some never managed to get out of that death spiral.
And now we have AI coming. What will happen then? Sorry, but "we the people" won't help there unless "we the people" adapt to a new reality and stop thinking about making T-shirts.

Yes, the government likes to interfere - in everything. But that is way outside what were discussing here.

We don't need to make everything here, we just need to offset the $1T trade deficit. Or we could actually just not buy those things at all and save the $1T annually. Same affect. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

As for Legacy 3 car companies, also a different story. I used to only drive those cars, until I also gave up. Had nothing to do with the workers either as they like to blame - it was 95% a management problem. My Nissan's were both made in TN. Lots of American made choices now - which is a good thing.

I disagree that the small towns didn't adapt. They did. They sent all their young people to the big city. Now those people mostly move paper around an office. And yes, AI will replace those jobs soon also. Thats going to be an eye opener for many.

Good talk.