Good read on 0w20 from Honda

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Originally Posted By: bubbajoe_2112
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: bubbajoe_2112
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
....That is not the feature we are discussing in this thread, which limits power output once oil temperatures get too high...


I am well aware of that. Still looking for proof of the oil temp based limp mode on the Mustang engines....

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
So based on the Ford engineers comments, their is also a fail-safe system to deal with high oil temp's.


What Ford Engineer's comment?


What Ed posted earlier:

Quote:
Consideration was given to an external oil cooler, but ultimately it was decided not to penalize all Coyote buyers for the occasional antics of a miniscule fraction of owners. Oil temperature rises precipitously when the Coyote is revved more than 4,500 rpm for extended periods, and then an external oil-to-air cooler is vital. But those conditions can only be reached on a road-racing track, so the expensive cooler was ditched and engine management strategies were used to protect the engine during hot idles. However, the mounting area for the cooler was "protected" during the 2011 Mustang's development. That makes it easier for the open-trackers among us to fit a cooler (highly recommended by Coyote engine designers), and tells you something about Ford's intentions for special editions of the Coyote-powered Mustangs.

And don't worry about the occasional open-track without an oil cooler. The engineers say the oil cools quickly as soon as you take your foot out of it, and the engine management will limit the torque output if the oil gets too hot.


Forgive me if I don't rely on second hand heresay from an anonymous writer. Still looking for proof...

Really thought it would be in the owner's manual, but alas, (unless I just missed it) it's not. But the coolant limp mode is clearly listed in the same owner's manual.

The search continues....


Not really anonymous, the rag it came from is pretty well respected in the Mustang community. But if you want it first hand from Ford, as I said earlier, I can't help you out there, sorry.
frown.gif
 
Quote:
Look, Germans aren't the best communicators

I see. I post the information from the owners manual you say is for your car in black and white and the the best you can up with is the Germans aren't the best communicators.
crackmeup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Call it back specing to 30w or minimizing the use of 20w whatever verbiage your prefer but they are still running away from 20 there in that car.


Trav, if they still have 0w20 as an alternative, how is it they are running away from it?

How does it follow that the order in which alternatives are listed in Mobil's website is a preference? I found cases where the order was reversed.

Why don't you contact Toyota Germany directly to ask them the questions instead of leaping to conclusions? Is it because you already know the answer? Do you want to find the facts or do you only want to (mis)represent facts that support what you feel in your gut?

You know that even your friends here are saying that the unique factor in Germany vs the rest of the world is the autobahn.

Maybe all you are seeing is that the folks working in Mobil made a mistake in their database last year and it has been corrected. Or maybe Toyota Germany made a mistake. Or maybe they just reassessed things.

But this is really a ludicrous supposition that Toyota globally are running away from 20 weight oil in a country where oil is heavier for the autobahn, where you've gotten the information from Mobil's website, where you haven't spoken or checked with Toyota, and where even Mobil's website has 0w20 as an alternative.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Look, Germans aren't the best communicators

I see. I post the information from the owners manual you say is for your car in black and white and the the best you can up with is the Germans aren't the best communicators.
crackmeup2.gif




Well you posted the chart without the text that gave context on how to use it, and you haven't explained whether it means not to use GC 0w30 above 86f ambient.

So yes, Germans aren't the best communicators because the chart is confusing, and you posted it without context.
 
Hey you say you own the car so you must have the owners manual.
Why don't you post the whole page and lets see if there is anything different.
Try asking MB why you cant run Castrol whatever above 86f they are the ones making the statement.
 
Quote:
But this is really a ludicrous supposition that Toyota globally are running away from 20 weight oil in a country where oil is heavier for the autobahn

Show me where i ever said Toyota was running away from 20w globally.
Come on lets see it.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Well, Ford DOES have more than one spec
smile.gif
WSS-M2C946-A is met by M1 5w30. The oil for the BOSS 302 and Shelby has yet another spec associated with it.

Ford doesn't just say use 5w20 in everything, there ARE application specific recommendations. What muddies things a bit is that outside of North America, those recommendations change. Whilst Mercedes's recommendations are global.

That's why the effects of CAFE are being questioned here.


Ford's different specs seem to be power density related, just as do the Japanese.

In Germany, small engines are pushed as hard, if not sometimes harder, due to the autobahn. Their small engines also tend to be higher power density engines. That seems to drive the relative uniformity of spec across the product range. As you say, it's then a global spec which may be for engineering reasons or may be for practical reasons.

The Japanese seem to allow 0w20 worldwide, including in Germany, although the primary spec for the Prius there now seems to be 0w30. 0w tends to be synthetic, so maybe this explains why they are comfortable using it worldwide.

From what I saw on Castrol's Australia website, they have developed a 5w20 with Ford, Jaguar and Land Rover. But generally the oils there are not SN or even SM. My supposition is that there is more a market acceptance / price issue here. If you read the article I posted about VW, it said the Germans found it hard to have people pay the high prices for the Euro spec oils and hence all the sludge issues. It's harder for the domestics to change consumer perceptions in Europe where German cars running on heavier oil are the gold standard.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
From the chart it looks like the CLK550 has a lot more oil choices than 2 in the USA.


Does the chart tell you that? Or the spec sheet?

Which ones are readily available?
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
But this is really a ludicrous supposition that Toyota globally are running away from 20 weight oil in a country where oil is heavier for the autobahn

Show me where i ever said Toyota was running away from 20w globally.
Come on lets see it.


So now you're saying they're only running away from it in Germany? Okie dokey.

And if they are running away from it in Germany, why is it listed as an alternative still?
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Hey you say you own the car so you must have the owners manual.
Why don't you post the whole page and lets see if there is anything different.
Try asking MB why you cant run Castrol whatever above 86f they are the ones making the statement.


You linked to it earlier remember and even gave the page number.

Funny how you then posted the picture without the text context.

Guess where I got the text from when I posted it?

Bingo genius! From my pdf copy on my laptop.

Quote:
Using the chart below, select oil viscosity
according to the lowest air temperature
expected before the next oil change
 
Originally Posted By: MarkStock
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
From the chart it looks like the CLK550 has a lot more oil choices than 2 in the USA.


Does the chart tell you that? Or the spec sheet?

Which ones are readily available?


Here's the list:

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html

There are 142 oils on that list.

And before you say "how many are available in North America", well, how many 5w20 and 0w20 oils meeting Ford's specs are available in Germany?

Exactly.

The list is actually pretty bloody long once you consider that all the oils are synthetic (by the North American definition).
 
Originally Posted By: MarkStock
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
From the chart it looks like the CLK550 has a lot more oil choices than 2 in the USA.


Does the chart tell you that? Or the spec sheet?

Which ones are readily available?

I'm looking at the chart, it's from the OM isn't it? Why not post the page from your OM, then we can see if there's a difference.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Quote:
Seems to me that in the acid test, ie how engines have performed in real life testing during the last decade in the US, Ford, despite CAFE, got their oil spec's right, and the Germans got it badly wrong.


This is Ford's home market. They took a progressive approach that had limited liability attached to it. They obviously had a much better grasp on the American consumer and his behaviours than the Germans did.


Maybe, but these are big multinational companies. They have a huge presence in America and local expertise. It's not the Germans in Germany calling the shots, it's the management in the US who should have a great understanding of the US market.
 
As far as MB 229.5 oils available in North America, from that list, these are the ones I know we have, or can get:

-Mercedes-Benz PKW-Synthetic Motorenöl MB 229.5
-Premium Synthetik Motorenöl
-smart Motoröl 5W-30
-Castrol EDGE 0W-30 A3/B4
-Chevron Havoline Synthetic Motor Oil
-EVOLUTION OEM Series I 5W-30
-EVOLUTION OEM Series I 5W-40
-Mobil 1 0W-40
-Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 0W-40
-Mobil SHC Formula M 5W-30
-Pennzoil Platinum European Formula
-Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40 Full Synthetic
-Q European Engine Ultra
-Q Horsepower Full Synthetic
-SynPower HST
-SynPower SAE 5W-30 motor oil
-Texaco Havoline Synthetic

Not sure on how readily available the MOTUL products are, so I didn't include them in the list.
 
Originally Posted By: MarkStock
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Quote:
Seems to me that in the acid test, ie how engines have performed in real life testing during the last decade in the US, Ford, despite CAFE, got their oil spec's right, and the Germans got it badly wrong.


This is Ford's home market. They took a progressive approach that had limited liability attached to it. They obviously had a much better grasp on the American consumer and his behaviours than the Germans did.


Maybe, but these are big multinational companies. They have a huge presence in America and local expertise. It's not the Germans in Germany calling the shots, it's the management in the US who should have a great understanding of the US market.


I don't think they anticipated their own dealer networks not using the right lubricants for the application however. I believe that was one of the biggest issues.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: MarkStock
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
From the chart it looks like the CLK550 has a lot more oil choices than 2 in the USA.


Does the chart tell you that? Or the spec sheet?

Which ones are readily available?

I'm looking at the chart, it's from the OM isn't it? Why not post the page from your OM, then we can see if there's a difference.


I can't post a pdf page from the OM. You can go to the link the Trav provided.

In any case, the page says to refer to the Mercedes spec sheet.

For the second time, just for you, here is your friends post on that topic:

Originally Posted By: Shannow
As to choice...

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but there are a couple of grades in there aren't there ?
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
As far as MB 229.5 oils available in North America, from that list, these are the ones I know we have, or can get:

-Mercedes-Benz PKW-Synthetic Motorenöl MB 229.5
-Premium Synthetik Motorenöl
-smart Motoröl 5W-30
-Castrol EDGE 0W-30 A3/B4
-Chevron Havoline Synthetic Motor Oil
-EVOLUTION OEM Series I 5W-30
-EVOLUTION OEM Series I 5W-40
-Mobil 1 0W-40
-Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 0W-40
-Mobil SHC Formula M 5W-30
-Pennzoil Platinum European Formula
-Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40 Full Synthetic
-Q European Engine Ultra
-Q Horsepower Full Synthetic
-SynPower HST
-SynPower SAE 5W-30 motor oil
-Texaco Havoline Synthetic

Not sure on how readily available the MOTUL products are, so I didn't include them in the list.


Yes and the only economical ones are M1 0w40 and GC 0w30 when they are $5 a quart on sale.

I've never seen anything else come close to that price or ever seen it in a store.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Okie dokey.

Hey you prowl around Mobil.de you tell me.
An alternative is less then being preferred.


So you accept it's in the alternative category, not the "Toyota is running away from it" category?
 
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