GM's 230 mpg Chevy Volt aka Toyota Prius killer

[KrisZ]

Quote:
How do you measure MPG if it does not run on gasoline? I never knew you could measure electricity in volume.


Nissan just proved that GM's ridiculous method of mpg measurement for their Volt can be beaten and 230 mpg is not a "game changer".

Do you really believe Volt will drive 230 miles continuously on one gallon of gas? Because that's what GM wants everybody to think by posting this stupid number.

 

[ViragoBry]

Due to the price, this is bound to be a upper-middle-class-tree-hugger "look at me" vehicle that will produce good MPG and pollution numbers at the expense of user-friendliness. It won't be a vehicle to buy if you're truly trying to save money on fuel.

The Tesla roadster is an awesome piece of fuel-free technology, but at $100K, I could buy a lot of gas for my $22,000 car. It's the lack of emissions (which I know is up for debate considering the KwH it costs to re-charge it) that will have to be the attraction, because at a price of $40K, the Volt is no bargain when compared to the Prius..and the Prius has NO range limit.

"Oh no, I forgot to plug in the Pri....oh wait, I don't have to plug it in."

So...are Americans willing to pay $40K for a small-ish car that has to be plugged in...to help save the environment? I doubt it. It's a neat, different toy that the upper-middle-class will buy so they can say they are doing their part. I envision it spending most of its time plugged in in the garage while they take the E350 to dinner.

Hey, GM...since you're h*llbent on replacing a perfectly adequate Cobalt with a Cruze, how about a Cruze Hybrid? Since you seem to think that a 10-second 0-60 time is going to be acceptable to the American public, what could it hurt?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: bepperb
See the BMW 335d for another example. Sure a few will buy them for the cache, but that won't move the volume needed to recoup the development costs.

I don't really think that BMW counts on diesel sales in the US to recoup the development costs. Most of those costs will be recouped by sales in Europe where a diesel-powered BMW is not considered blasphemy and "unsporty".



Exactly right.

 

[bepperb]

I'm not saying that BMW counts on diesel sales in the US to recoup the development costs.

I'm saying the 335d is an excellent powertrain, but nobody here buys it. People who buy such expensive cars rarely consider fuel mileage was my point.

Perhaps I phrased it poorly. Volt is expensive. Buyers of expensive cars care more about image than fuel efficiency. So in a way, this press release is probably doing what it's supposed to do... get the name out again and again so when there is product to sell they can do it at a premium to image conscious people. I've heard more about the Volt than any other pre-production car, save possibly the Viper.

 

[Quattro Pete]

At $40k, isn't the Volt still being sold at a loss to the manufacturer, sort of like the EV1 which was heavily subsidized? If so, the more they sell, the more money they lose. Hence, it's probably not in their best interest to sell more, at least in short term until they can figure out how to make it cheaper, and I'm sure eventually they will.

 

[Vilan]

Reminds me of a joke, which I'll adapt to the situation...

A man drops $40k on a new Volt and happily drives it off the lot. He silently glides up to a red light and finds himself beside someone driving an old Cavalier. Smirking, he rolls down the window and yells, "Hey, what's that terrible rattling your engine's making?" The other guy yells back, "Oh, that's not the engine, that's $35k jingling in my pocket!"

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: John_K
Yes like energy units per mile or some such, or one for the electric mode and one for the gas mode, or something that has some basis in reality.


That would be money! If they're going to compare it to gasoline vehicles, we need a MPG value that reflects equivalent cost.

A separate rating of energy usage per mile would be useful to compare to electrics in future ratings, so they should provide the results of that calculation method too.

 

[H2GURU]

Well... how about a little recent history lesson, Anyone from OHIO can fill you in on the deplorable condition of our grid as they experienced a massive power failure recently. The power cos. would have to double the amount of transmission lines to even get started in this? The knucklehead at the head of GM told Lesley Stahl that the VOLT w/b at least $40,000? When the temps. approach 90℉ around here the power cos. reduce output (brown-out) so I highly doubt we'll be charging our batteries any time soon!

 

[ekpolk]

On one hand, kudos to GM for pushing the frontier of technology. If it works, and I emphasize IF, that will be great.

On the other hand, personally, my attitude about the Volt is that I'll believe when I see.

I also put very little weight upon these predictions. I want to see how the car does when measured by the same EPA standards every other car has to withstand.

And don't forget, the plug-in charge is not a free lunch. Nor do I believe that it's a 40 cent lunch. Time will tell.

Also, this obscures that one of the true virtues of these cars is that they recapture braking energy. Instead of allowing ancient friction brakes to convert motion into heat, the hybrids convert motion into electrical energy, and save it for reuse. All the plug-in does is give you a "tank of gas" that you pay for in another way.

 

[Lorenzo]

Originally Posted By: wirelessF
How do you measure MPG if it does not run on gasoline? I never knew you could measure electricity in volume.
It has both an electric and gas engine like a Prius. But unlike the Prius, the Volt can be plugged in to charge the battery and only needs the gas engine if the battery gets fully drained after about 40 miles. So if you charge it at home and drive less than 40 miles before returning to plug it in, you would never need to use any gas.

 

[Lorenzo]

Originally Posted By: H2GURU
Well... how about a little recent history lesson, Anyone from OHIO can fill you in on the deplorable condition of our grid as they experienced a massive power failure recently.
That's the shameful truth. With the terrible state of our infrastructure, we cannot support a significant number of rechargeable cars anyway.

 

[mikered30]

Nissan fires back at GM:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/11/nissan-pokes-fun-at-the-volt-claims-367-mpg-equivalent-for-leaf/

It is electric only though.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: Lorenzo
Originally Posted By: wirelessF
How do you measure MPG if it does not run on gasoline? I never knew you could measure electricity in volume.
It has both an electric and gas engine like a Prius. But unlike the Prius, the Volt can be plugged in to charge the battery and only needs the gas engine if the battery gets fully drained after about 40 miles. So if you charge it at home and drive less than 40 miles before returning to plug it in, you would never need to use any gas.


Which MAY be a great thing. Let's just not lose sight of the fact that this is not a "free lunch". Let's hypothesize that millions of buyers fall in love with this car. OK, they'll be buying less gas, but they'll all be plugged into the grid, drawing off large amounts of electricity. They WILL pay for it, and the grid will have to be able to provide just that much more juice.

Let the competition run wild. I wish GM the best on this one, but it's not magic. . .

 

[robbobster]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
I'm not saying that BMW counts on diesel sales in the US to recoup the development costs.

I'm saying the 335d is an excellent powertrain, but nobody here buys it. People who buy such expensive cars rarely consider fuel mileage was my point.



They're testing the waters with it, and don't have lofty sales expectations.

Remember that it wasn't so long ago that the majority of Mercedes-Benz automobiles were diesels in the US...and those were cr@ppy compared to a modern diesel.

The idea behind electric cars is to recharge them at night, when there's excess power capacity. That's the argument that the utilities are lobbying ot the administration - charge them at night for pennies. But you can bet that off-peak power rates will skyrocket once demand increases.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: firemachine69
If that were the case, your Prius would be rated alot lower, as well...


Not...the prius doesn't take another power source. Everything in it is derived from the fuel in the tank.

Plug ins should have all of the cards on the table, including the 35% efficient power stations at the other end of the lead.

 

[Shannow]

BTW, my E30 got infinite MPG today.

On the way home, it lost all fuel (at least only fuel, haven't tested the rest).

Travelled 2 miles using hills and potential energy. The last 3 (jerky) miles were travelled with no petrol whatsoever, zero throttle.

The diesel ute 10 feet in front of me was a bit smokier than usual.

 

[ZZman]

Leave it to GM to price itself out of the market. Another reason why Ford and the Hybrid Fusion are the way to go.

I had read earlier that charging would cost about $ 1.00 a day for a full charge. At current gas rates that is over half the cost of gas per gallon. If gas goes to $4-5 a gallon the savings are even greater. Even the current rate it is a bargain for electric.

 

[oilyriser]

Overnight, you run the micro-CHP to charge your EV and make a tank full of hot water for you morning shower. Good times are ahead for those who adapt.

 

[BrianWC]

The Volt will have a market and the price will come down eventually. Look at all the amenities on modern basic cars that were once only the domain of Mercs and Cadillacs. I don't know if it's a "game changer," but it can't be a BAD thing. As far as the numbers go, I can't imagine they'd be too, too far off, as GM is bound to be aware by now (maybe) how much scrutiny they are under.

But yeah, the same calculus that put me in a Fit vs an Insight or Prius will no doubt be in many buyers mind. The Volt is going to have to rely on "gotta have it" factor for a while. But if GM can get the tech out there and prove it has a place in the market...

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: firemachine69
If that were the case, your Prius would be rated alot lower, as well...


Not...the prius doesn't take another power source. Everything in it is derived from the fuel in the tank.

Plug ins should have all of the cards on the table, including the 35% efficient power stations at the other end of the lead.


What? You expect truth in advertising?

They could just as well run it 100% electric and claim infinity MPG. The only reason they don't do that is that even the clueless wouldn't swallow that...OK, some of them would.