GM Vauxhall Insignia Diesel Crank Main Bearing Delete

[Donald64]

I was given a free Vauxhall Insignia CDTI with a spun centre main bearing.
This engine up to 2017 has a seal between the oil pickup pipe between the sump and oil pump. Eventually seal deterioration allows air leaks resulting in a spun centre crankshaft bearing.
Upon inspection, the block is damaged, so putting new shells in would be futile.
The remaining four bearings and block are untouched and are in good condition.

So, here goes: anybody ever ran a four cylinder modern diesel with the centre bearing deleted?

I would fit new and plasigauge the remaining ones.
I'm wanting to use the car for a few thousand miles before fitting a new engine. I would obviously drive the car gently

 

[JavierH19]

Not sure it could even go 2k miles. Never have run an engine with a bad bearing but people regularly run them like that until they blow. I'd probably run 20w-60/70 to help it a little, Though with the center bearing out a lot more oil will flow out so the rear bearings will get less oil and keeping the pressure high would help lubricate those rear bearings better. Wouldn't even bother changing it since the engine won't last long enough.

 

[PontiacHO]

I’d stake the block to help secure the bearing shell before trying to run without it. It would have zero oil pressure without it.

 

[MSCH]

I was given a free Vauxhall Insignia CDTI with a spun centre main bearing.
This engine up to 2017 has a seal between the oil pickup pipe between the sump and oil pump. Eventually seal deterioration allows air leaks resulting in a spun centre crankshaft bearing.
Upon inspection, the block is damaged, so putting new shells in would be futile.
The remaining four bearings and block are untouched and are in good condition.

So, here goes: anybody ever ran a four cylinder modern diesel with the centre bearing deleted?

I would fit new and plasigauge the remaining ones.
I'm wanting to use the car for a few thousand miles before fitting a new engine. I would obviously drive the car gently

no, in my mind it is toast. but if you want to try you probably need to seal off the oil supply to the center bearing.. no telling how long it will last.

remembering an aquaintence whose marine diesel was totally eroded from electrolysis actually glued the cylinder liners in with I think it was JB weld. it did run... then he did the smart thing and got rid of the boat..

 

[Donald64]

Thanks for the replies. I will plug the oil feed for that bearing. A search on eBay turns up scores of Insignia CDTI 2.0 cars going cheap with either the same problem, or the seller saying it's a faulty sensor
I was thinking of tapping the oil feed and fitting a grub screw. Visions of a broken bit in an induction hardened surface changed my mind and I will machine a short brass tapered plug to seal it.
I think/hope the crankshaft has a sufficient safety factor to enable this bodge to work.
The sensible part of my brain worries about the huge torque that modern diesel's put out at low RPM.
I'm going to try it out. Unless someone has experience of this being an lesson in futility?
As an aside, the car has done 160k miles. Run for its entire life on Mobil fully synthetic; the cleanliness of the engine looks like a nearly new engine. Citroen XUD diesels form the 1980s wouldn't be so clean after 1/10th of the work this engine has done. Modern cars may be rubbish, but engine oil is not
I will probably also go for the more viscous oil suggestion?
If it takes me on holiday and back, I might keep on running it. Thanks.

 

[Donald64]

I am a boring man, so I thought I'd share the reason as I understand it for these engines failing at around the 80-160k miles point:
When GM was gifted this engine from Fiat as part of their divorce settlement, GM did a redesign of the oil pickup/pump interface.
A unique design of oil seal (search CDTI pickup seal on eBay, there's hundreds, as well as a modified aftermarket part too listed) age-hardens and splits. The air leak then causes a loss of oil pressure with a spun centre main bearing being the usual mode of engine failure.
If you are lucky, you will get an intermittent 'low oil pressure' warning message upon starting a cold engine.
Unlucky folk get a failure on the motorway and it only takes a mile or so before you have a ruined engine.
The scary bit is that the ECU shuts the engine off. So you don't have the option of sacrificing the engine to get to safety...
GM should have recalled the car early on. They surely knew when they were selling thousands of the $9 seal that something was amiss?

 

[CleverUserName]

I have a Cruze diesel which has the A20DTH AKA 2.0 JTD. I learned about this oil pickup seal issue after it was purchased, probably would not have bought it knowing it needed to be done.

I bought the aftermarket seal that uses a machine sleeve with Viton o-rings from Poland and had it installed at 60k miles. After a couple years no problem with the engine after a TB/WP replacement.

 

[Donald64]

I have a Cruze diesel which has the A20DTH AKA 2.0 JTD. I learned about this oil pickup seal issue after it was purchased, probably would not have bought it knowing it needed to be done.

I bought the aftermarket seal that uses a machine sleeve with Viton o-rings from Poland and had it installed at 60k miles. After a couple years no problem with the engine after a TB/WP replacement.

I think I will get the modified part when I get a replacement engine. Thankfully my car has the cutouts to access the two rear sump bolts, so I didn't have to split the engine/box or drill the access holes.
I don't even think the Insignia CDTI is worth the risk for even the low prices they are now going for. I have never seen so many cars with the same fault.
I was sat outside a pub yesterday. Fairly quiet traffic, I counted ten go by in two hours. Vauxhall must've sold hundreds of thousands of them over the nine years before they did a redesign.
When my sister broke down in this one, she was one mile off the M6 with a ten mile 'Smart Motorway' section ahead. It could have easily have cost far more than a broken car
Thanks for the replies. Any more input is most welcome. Having worked on Citroen for over 40 years, including having my own business, I should know better. But my curiosity has taken over and I really want to know if this will work.
My prediction is: will start and drive okay. A vibration phase will be felt at a certain RPM. I will be driving in this part of the engine range and the crankshaft will fracture, ventilating the engine block with broken engine parts .

 

[Oliveoil2]

Don’t think the crank will last without support in the middle.

 

[CleverUserName]

I think I will get the modified part when I get a replacement engine. Thankfully my car has the cutouts to access the two rear sump bolts, so I didn't have to split the engine/box or drill the access holes.
I don't even think the Insignia CDTI is worth the risk for even the low prices they are now going for. I have never seen so many cars with the same fault.
I was sat outside a pub yesterday. Fairly quiet traffic, I counted ten go by in two hours. Vauxhall must've sold hundreds of thousands of them over the nine years before they did a redesign.
When my sister broke down in this one, she was one mile off the M6 with a ten mile 'Smart Motorway' section ahead. It could have easily have cost far more than a broken car
Thanks for the replies. Any more input is most welcome. Having worked on Citroen for over 40 years, including having my own business, I should know better. But my curiosity has taken over and I really want to know if this will work.
My prediction is: will start and drive okay. A vibration phase will be felt at a certain RPM. I will be driving in this part of the engine range and the crankshaft will fracture, ventilating the engine block with broken engine parts .

I like the 2.0 CDTI engine better than the VW 2.0 TDI from the same era, I have both. The CDTI has better fuel economy, more power, and is smoother. Most of the drivetrain components are superior to the VW and more durable. GM really screwed up with that pickup seal flaw otherwise it would be a solid platform.

 

[Donald64]

Don’t think the crank will last without support in the middle.

I only need it to last about 1,000 miles. They will be gentle, low stress miles. My theory is that the crankshaft design has to withstand the worst case scenario. Things like towing, long distances at high rpm, arctic temperature starting and missed service intervals. But you may well be correct. There could be such vibration that the crankshaft snaps within minutes. I do know some classic cars are fitted with a three bearing crankshaft in a five bearing block. MGB B-Series to name one.
I will keep you posted.

 

[JavierH19]

I only need it to last about 1,000 miles. They will be gentle, low stress miles. My theory is that the crankshaft design has to withstand the worst case scenario. Things like towing, long distances at high rpm, arctic temperature starting and missed service intervals. But you may well be correct. There could be such vibration that the crankshaft snaps within minutes. I do know some classic cars are fitted with a three bearing crankshaft in a five bearing block. MGB B-Series to name one.
I will keep you posted.

It'll be fun once the crank splits from the fatigue.

 

[Donald64]

I’d stake the block to help secure the bearing shell before trying to run without it. It would have zero oil pressure without it.

Sorry, I misread your reply.

I realise that it's the 'Crush' which secures the two shells, with the 'Tabs' being solely for the lateral location, so can you please explain what staking a bearing cap and block would involve?

The spun bearing has removed about 1.5 thou" from the block and cap's total diameter. The journal has minor scoring, which will possibly polish out...

If I omit the centre bearing, I will plug the oil feed to the absent shells.


It will be the newest car I've ever owned, other than the several hundred bought to sell on through my former business. I usually drive stuff like my E36 Touring and a Citroen Xantia. Thanks.

 

[Donald64]

It'll be fun once the crank splits from the fatigue.

It will. However I've never seen a broken crankshaft in 45 years. When I worked for other garages, I used to do mainly engine jobs
The ideal solution would be a brand new block and reground crankshaft. There are none available.
Second best is a low mileage engine. However, the majority of Insignia CDTI are in the scrapyard for this very reason.
The best engine I've come across is half the price of a full car in good condition. But I could easily end up with an engine on it's last legs.
I think it will either vibrate its head off, or run okay.
I have about ten hours and £9 invested in this car. Nothing much to lose. The mint leather interior will recover £250 if it goes bad.

 

[Donald64]

I like the 2.0 CDTI engine better than the VW 2.0 TDI from the same era, I have both. The CDTI has better fuel economy, more power, and is smoother. Most of the drivetrain components are superior to the VW and more durable. GM really screwed up with that pickup seal flaw otherwise it would be a solid platform.

I agree, Fiat managed to make a diesel which met the current emissions regs without the need for AdBlue. The sequenced injection was very clever and fuel economy is around 60mpg that's Imperial gallons, but still good for a heavy car.
I'd love the car with a Citroen XUD diesel in it...

 

[fdcg27]

I like your spirit of inventive experimentation.
Be sure to let us know how this works out.
I'd be tickled to hear that this fiddle does just fine.
You may have hit on a workable fix for this engine.
Who knows?

 

[Donald64]

I promise to let you know. I had a funny spell a few months ago and rented a workshop so I could come out of retirement. I have to make sure the 25 year old BMW E36 is serviced first, so I have at least one working car.
For various reasons it has clocked up around 30k on the same oil and filter. I will find the exact mileage too.
It's got a Hengst filter currently, so I'll add some photos of it when the new 'Omnicraft' £2.99 Inc P&P or about $3.75 arrives. They're sold by Ford dealerships. Everything is 1978 prices It's a 316i Touring with 162k on the clock.

It will be interesting when the Insignia is started up again for the first time. I'll try making a short video if I get the time. Wish me luck

 

[PontiacHO]

Sorry, I misread your reply.

I realise that it's the 'Crush' which secures the two shells, with the 'Tabs' being solely for the lateral location, so can you please explain what staking a bearing cap and block would involve?

The spun bearing has removed about 1.5 thou" from the block and cap's total diameter. The journal has minor scoring, which will possibly polish out...

If I omit the centre bearing, I will plug the oil feed to the absent shells.


It will be the newest car I've ever owned, other than the several hundred bought to sell on through my former business. I usually drive stuff like my E36 Touring and a Citroen Xantia. Thanks.

It’s a really crude way of doing things… Basically taking a chiseled and gouging the block where the ends of the bearings reside and also main bearing cap so the crease will hold the bearings in place since the machined tabs are gone/damaged. Your idea of capping the oil galley in the block at that journal is better. No bearing, no loss of oil pressure, and no risk of the bearing spinning again to lock up the crank. The main bearing journals closest to the eliminated one will possibly have accelerated wear. Who knows. It may run for a long time. Drilling and tapping a pipe plug doesn’t cost much… Keep us posted.

 

[fdcg27]

Brilliant!
Had a 318i e36 ragtop.
A truly good and fun to drive car I should have kept.
Dead reliable like old-school BMWs used to be.

 

[Donald64]

It’s a really crude way of doing things… Basically taking a chiseled and gouging the block where the ends of the bearings reside and also main bearing cap so the crease will hold the bearings in place since the machined tabs are gone/damaged. Your idea of capping the oil galley in the block at that journal is better. No bearing, no loss of oil pressure, and no risk of the bearing spinning again to lock up the crank. The main bearing journals closest to the eliminated one will possibly have accelerated wear. Who knows. It may run for a long time. Drilling and tapping a pipe plug doesn’t cost much… Keep us posted.

Thanks. I've decided to try it. I've always fancied being a YouTube star...
I plan to make a brass plug to drift into the centre bearing oil feed.
I will put new shells in the remaining four; possibly a bad idea, but they're around $28 for a set of King shells on eBay.

If it were a Honda, the car would be worth around the equivalent of $5k but it's not.
I usually go to my workshop and work on the late sixties Suzuki A100 I've restored. I take a break and look around the Insignia. To my mind, it's a really beautiful car. It has a rare five star rating on the NCAP crash and pedestrian safety test rating.
Fancy projector beam - turn with the steering like a Citroen SM - headlights and perfect build quality: at least as far as the body shell is concerned. The first owner only did 2k miles each year. Lots of service stamps and a perfect body and interior.

I then recall the posts on the Insignia forums. A car with endless flaws.
But I think only Honda and Toyota make cars which don't go wrong nowadays?

My BMW E36 is a self-repair machine. If you ignore a problem long enough, it simply goes away. But the steering and suspension components take their turn in wearing out. It has M3 bits throughout in this area. Brakes too. With the 1.6 M43 engine, I can hit any corner at silly speeds and it clings to the road with zero body roll. Amazing.
You simply set the steering wheel and go as fast as the little engine will allow.
When new, the M3 E36 must have been a revelation!
Watch this space!