GM posts $4.3 billion loss in July-December period

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Originally Posted By: kelpie
It is fashionable to bash unions as of lately, but they have contributed enormously to the middle class over the years.


You're right that they have helped a lot of workers, but does that mean it is right to try and monopolize the workforce in order to manipulate wages and other items that the economy would typically self-regulate?

The organizers of these unions are some of the biggest socialistic threats we have to be worried about, in case you didn't know.
 
Originally Posted By: kelpie
It is fashionable to bash unions as of lately, but they have contributed enormously to the middle class over the years.


Agreed, but with the new competition and the world economy, something had to give.

Me personally, I think the older wages were too high, and the new $14 starting wage is too low. But outside sources are dictating more than internal forces IMO. I find it fascinating that two men doing the same job right beside each other can be renumerated in such vastly different ways.

Henry Ford would be sick to his stomache, to learn that a new hire at Ford cant afford to buy the cars he is building. Going forward something has got to change along those lines.
 
If the Unions were destroyed it would be a-lot cheaper for them to produce more profitably here.

It is not fashionable to bash unions lately, many of us have been saying the UAW would be the demise of the American auto industry for many years.
 
Originally Posted By: rszappa1
especially the ones made in Mexico....
You mean like the VW Jetta and Beetle, Nissan Sentra and Versa, Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan, and many more?

Why is it only bad when GM does it? Never mind, I know...
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Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
.... If the government had done a legitimate BK proceeding this would be a non issue as the UAW would/should have been left hung out to dry.

Well, not completely. The PBGC would have stepped in to cover the pension liabilities, and guess who funds that entity. At least, theoretically, the government currently has a stake in something it may be able to profit from.
 
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
If you want different results you have to do things differently. I don't see them doing things too differently so the results are unfortunately predictably going to be constistant with the past.
Product line up, organizational structure , manufacturing methods and supply chain all need change.



As in insider I can assure you LOTS have changed w/in GM and we are a better company now. It is very unfortunate that the public doesn't hear about this so most people feel just like you.


Unfortunately, with a consumer products company the only thing that really matters is whether the consumers like the products.
 
Paul that last line summs it all up..... Make something people want and trust and they will buy it and continue to in the future....
 
The only way that I see either G.M or Chrysler surviving is if they both merged and start producing vehicles that the consumer wants. The market is dictated by the consumer and if you can't produce a product that the consumer will buy, you are doomed to fail. People buy the Japanese cars and Korean cars because they are reliable and well built. If they were not, then they would be in the same position as the 2 domestic brands. I am not bashing the domestic brands, they are building some really good cars at the moment (except Chrysler) but that was only out of necessity not choice. They have to to survive.
The problem now is to bring back the customers that they have alienated for the past 30 years with subpar quailty and service.
 
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
GM posts $4.3 billion loss in July-December period

Who else thinks that GM will be in the red despite the clean slateof Bankruptcy reorg?



From the same article: ".... It took in $1 billion more than it spent in the period."

I sure wish I had a billion dollar positive cash flow.

And If I read the article correctly, of the 51 billion and change the Feds threw at GM, It's repaid $2.4B and has $36B cash on hand.

The Fed investment doesn't sound nearly as dire as many, including myself, feared.
 
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the unions certainly contributed to the problem, but let's not forget that it was the execs that kept drawing the fat paychecks even when things were going south. It wasn't the unions that were designing cars that people didn't like. It wasn't the unions that kept marketing PU's and SUV's and then complained every time the market went south. It wasn't the unions that wouldn't advertise the smaller cars and their reliability and safety scores like Ford finally started to do.
 
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: rszappa1
Gee I thought thay they are making good stuff and will repay the loan.... Tell me how you can repay when you have a 4.3 billion dollar loss.....
Easy, the government continues to subsidize the debts on the backs of us taxpayers. They're a zombie company.


Zombies are the worst car builders out there. Motoring skills are next to non-existent.
 
GM's real problem is that import brands are taking a lot of the market share because the average consumer buys whatever the media recommends. If Car and Driver, CR, etc with no real technical basis say, "buy Toyota, buy Honda" then that's what these consumers do. It doesn't matter what GM does or what it builds or if the vehicles are a better choice than the competition, if the media is biased then GM will not have the sales volume to be profitable. Anyway didn't other automakers lose money recently?
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
GM's real problem is that import brands are taking a lot of the market share because the average consumer buys whatever the media recommends. If Car and Driver, CR, etc with no real technical basis say, "buy Toyota, buy Honda" then that's what these consumers do. It doesn't matter what GM does or what it builds or if the vehicles are a better choice than the competition, if the media is biased then GM will not have the sales volume to be profitable. Anyway didn't other automakers lose money recently?


There is a lot of truth in what you said. A lot of people are more concerned with lowest operation cost, which does not considered insurance to them. They want the maximum OCI and take it quick lube or dealership to have it done. More than likely, it's a quick lube. Preventive maintenance is unheard off and they are scared to take their cars into dealership because we all know, and they do too, that dealership always recommend [censored] repair without actually doing the work.
 
Unfortunately GM has lost generations of potential buyers who in the past had driven their products and were disappointed in the quality.....my entire family drove nothing but GM products up to and through the 70s and early 80s.....now none of them will even consider supporting them after years of better ownership experiences with other brands.
 
Originally Posted By: rszappa1
I like an American made car like my Accord and the two Civics I had....Made in OHIO....and that is part of the USA

Wrong, pal. they did FINAL ASSEMBLY there, which is a small component of manufacturing an automobile. All the parts are MADE elsewhere, the only real creativity in a US honda plant
is when the building is constructed...then the Japanese fill it up with their merchandise.
 
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