Yeah some of that final asembly, like say unit body stampings and sub assemblies, is done by $8 or so an hour temp workers. Not hard to be profitable when you have low labor cost and the media providing you a consumer base. I never could get the logic of statement like, "My Honda is made in Ohio". That's great but how many better paying jobs were displaced in Ohio? Oh well no one cares about that and that's the way of the future. But at least if GM makes a good vehicle the media shouldn't be biased. Maybe GM will end up building all its vehicles in china and then I'll switch to Honda lol.
GM posts $4.3 billion loss in July-December period
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It is not my purpose to employ workers with a "good paying job" I will pay more for certain specialty products(thinking about pulling the trigger on a $500 le crueset goose pot becaue my wife and I really are impressed with all of their enameled cast iron cookware we own and we want a larger one for turkeys and large waterfowl.
Our Toyota purchases are based on the same type of personal experience making us willing to pay a premium for the results.
That being said I am not antidomestic, I still own a Jeep. It has a specific purpose.
Our Toyota purchases are based on the same type of personal experience making us willing to pay a premium for the results.
That being said I am not antidomestic, I still own a Jeep. It has a specific purpose.
Tell that to the guys in France making a fortune off that chunk of iron you're paying $500 for.
I'm guessing that $500 goes a long way to provide their four day work weeks and 16 weeks vacation every year....lol.
Not trying to dig at you man....the crueset stuff is nice. But darn $500!
I'm guessing that $500 goes a long way to provide their four day work weeks and 16 weeks vacation every year....lol.
Not trying to dig at you man....the crueset stuff is nice. But darn $500!
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What I'm saying is for example buying a Ohio made or Michigan made Chevy or Pontiac (ok pontiac doesn't exist anymore case in point), that very well probably costs less than an Ohio made Honda, you stimulated the US economy more and the job opportunity you saved might very well be your own or someone in your interest. You don't have to live in any of those states or even working in the auto industry. The funny thing about currency circulating in the American economy is it supports jobs all over the country.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
GM's real problem is that import brands are taking a lot of the market share because the average consumer buys whatever the media recommends. If Car and Driver, CR, etc with no real technical basis say, "buy Toyota, buy Honda" then that's what these consumers do. It doesn't matter what GM does or what it builds or if the vehicles are a better choice than the competition, if the media is biased then GM will not have the sales volume to be profitable. Anyway didn't other automakers lose money recently?
CR, C&D, etc had nothing good to say about Hyundai or Kia for years. Their growth rate last year beat just everybody else. So what did they have that UAW-owned GM did not?
Better products, better quality, lower labor cost (no greedy unions), better warranty and better quality.
GM's real problem is that import brands are taking a lot of the market share because the average consumer buys whatever the media recommends. If Car and Driver, CR, etc with no real technical basis say, "buy Toyota, buy Honda" then that's what these consumers do. It doesn't matter what GM does or what it builds or if the vehicles are a better choice than the competition, if the media is biased then GM will not have the sales volume to be profitable. Anyway didn't other automakers lose money recently?
CR, C&D, etc had nothing good to say about Hyundai or Kia for years. Their growth rate last year beat just everybody else. So what did they have that UAW-owned GM did not?
Better products, better quality, lower labor cost (no greedy unions), better warranty and better quality.
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And for the first few years....very easy credit.
Hyundais and Kia are better quality? Maybe better than before, but not better than any one else. Say what you want but the auto media is giving them more favoritism than they deserve.
Just because one hates union doesnt mean they should make things up. Well I'm not going to debate this ad naseum with everyone who has an agenda or supports false economics. I guess when we get import cars from China that are "better quality" according to the media not even Toyota and Honda will be able to competively manufacture cars in the US. I'm not sure where consumers are going to find jobs to be able to buy these vehicles though.
Just because one hates union doesnt mean they should make things up. Well I'm not going to debate this ad naseum with everyone who has an agenda or supports false economics. I guess when we get import cars from China that are "better quality" according to the media not even Toyota and Honda will be able to competively manufacture cars in the US. I'm not sure where consumers are going to find jobs to be able to buy these vehicles though.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
What I'm saying is for example buying a Ohio made or Michigan made Chevy or Pontiac (ok pontiac doesn't exist anymore case in point), that very well probably costs less than an Ohio made Honda, you stimulated the US economy more and the job opportunity you saved might very well be your own or someone in your interest. You don't have to live in any of those states or even working in the auto industry. The funny thing about currency circulating in the American economy is it supports jobs all over the country.
I work in an industry that supplies a product that everyone needs. It is a commosdity so labeling and brand identification has little to do with the bottom line.
What I'm saying is for example buying a Ohio made or Michigan made Chevy or Pontiac (ok pontiac doesn't exist anymore case in point), that very well probably costs less than an Ohio made Honda, you stimulated the US economy more and the job opportunity you saved might very well be your own or someone in your interest. You don't have to live in any of those states or even working in the auto industry. The funny thing about currency circulating in the American economy is it supports jobs all over the country.
I work in an industry that supplies a product that everyone needs. It is a commosdity so labeling and brand identification has little to do with the bottom line.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Hyundais and Kia are better quality? Maybe better than before, but not better than any one else. Say what you want but the auto media is giving them more favoritism than they deserve.
Just because one hates union doesnt mean they should make things up.
Where am I making stuff up? My 2008 Kia is a better quality car than my 2005 Toyota Tacoma was.
Favoritism??? You must have missed all those articles about the junky 90's Hyundai cars.
Hyundai's new Sonata has better MPG than other cars in the class. New Sonata Hybrid will sell for less than other hybrids AND will have a Li-Ion battery, unlike all other hybrids. Sounds to me that they are investing more in R&D than some other companies (and I am NOT picking up on GM, their new engines look promising).
With main-stream media (CNN, NBC) carrying water for GM and Chrysler, I do not know if there is any other way to increase positive coverage for them.
Hyundais and Kia are better quality? Maybe better than before, but not better than any one else. Say what you want but the auto media is giving them more favoritism than they deserve.
Just because one hates union doesnt mean they should make things up.
Where am I making stuff up? My 2008 Kia is a better quality car than my 2005 Toyota Tacoma was.
Favoritism??? You must have missed all those articles about the junky 90's Hyundai cars.
Hyundai's new Sonata has better MPG than other cars in the class. New Sonata Hybrid will sell for less than other hybrids AND will have a Li-Ion battery, unlike all other hybrids. Sounds to me that they are investing more in R&D than some other companies (and I am NOT picking up on GM, their new engines look promising).
With main-stream media (CNN, NBC) carrying water for GM and Chrysler, I do not know if there is any other way to increase positive coverage for them.
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All of you GM bashers need to go drive a LaCrosse, Malibu, Terrain, Equinox, Traverse, Enclave, Silverado and pretty much anything else that GM is putting out now.
Equinox and Terrain you can't even find one to drive they are selling so quickly. Drove the LaCrosse after a new TL, there was no comparison, the LaCrosse was a much nicer car.
The 6 speed auto they have out is solid, as is the Ecotec and 3.6 V6.
Equinox and Terrain you can't even find one to drive they are selling so quickly. Drove the LaCrosse after a new TL, there was no comparison, the LaCrosse was a much nicer car.
The 6 speed auto they have out is solid, as is the Ecotec and 3.6 V6.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I guess when we get import cars from China that are "better quality" according to the media not even Toyota and Honda will be able to competively manufacture cars in the US. I'm not sure where consumers are going to find jobs to be able to buy these vehicles though.
+1
We'll be buying WalMart cars on a WalMart wage.
I guess when we get import cars from China that are "better quality" according to the media not even Toyota and Honda will be able to competively manufacture cars in the US. I'm not sure where consumers are going to find jobs to be able to buy these vehicles though.
+1
We'll be buying WalMart cars on a WalMart wage.
All the parts are made elsewhere you say on my Accord..... 64% of the parts are made in the USA....
I just read in the mechanical section that Honda Fit requires valve adjustments every 30k and it's a 2.7 hours job
, but I'm sure it will be considered as "superior Japanese engineering" by rszappa1
Many people will not buy them because a GM they owned in the past was a pain.
Many people will not buy because of the government involvement
Many people will not buy because another manufacturer of car treats them well.
Anyway, many jobs lost in the auto manufacturing business are not caused by overseas labor, they are caused by machines that do more of the work. Why should the consumer be expected to pay extra for manual labor, when machine labor does the same or better for less.
And about Hondas from Ohio. Nearly all of them have the first digit of the VIN as 1. A 1 indicates that the majority of it comes from the USA. A VIN with a first digit of 4 or 5 indicates that the final assembly is made in the USA, but most parts are made overseas. Many Toyota cars are the same way.
Many people will not buy because of the government involvement
Many people will not buy because another manufacturer of car treats them well.
Anyway, many jobs lost in the auto manufacturing business are not caused by overseas labor, they are caused by machines that do more of the work. Why should the consumer be expected to pay extra for manual labor, when machine labor does the same or better for less.
And about Hondas from Ohio. Nearly all of them have the first digit of the VIN as 1. A 1 indicates that the majority of it comes from the USA. A VIN with a first digit of 4 or 5 indicates that the final assembly is made in the USA, but most parts are made overseas. Many Toyota cars are the same way.
No true as I said my Accord was built in Ohio with 64% USA parts. I checked the 2003 and 2004 Civic that also was made in OHIO....68% parts in the USA...... What about the FUSHION.... how much USA parts on that....o and it is built in Mexico....
Ford:
31 Plants in the USA
World HQ in the USA
Huge Engineering, Design and marketing staffs in USA
Profits stay here and much of it is reinvested here
Honda:
4 Plants in the USA
World HQ in Japan along with associated jobs
Profits go to Japan with little control over where invested
Market Share:
Ford 14-16%
Honda 10-12%
You tell me who does more for the American worker. If Honda employed similar numbers relative to Hondas market share, they would have at least 20 plants here in the States.
31 Plants in the USA
World HQ in the USA
Huge Engineering, Design and marketing staffs in USA
Profits stay here and much of it is reinvested here
Honda:
4 Plants in the USA
World HQ in Japan along with associated jobs
Profits go to Japan with little control over where invested
Market Share:
Ford 14-16%
Honda 10-12%
You tell me who does more for the American worker. If Honda employed similar numbers relative to Hondas market share, they would have at least 20 plants here in the States.
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Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Ford:
31 Plants in the USA
World HQ in the USA
Huge Engineering, Design and marketing staffs in USA
Profits stay here and much of it is reinvested here
Honda:
4 Plants in the USA
World HQ in Japan along with associated jobs
Profits go to Japan with little control over where invested
Market Share:
Ford 14-16%
Honda 10-12%
You tell me who does more for the American worker. If Honda employed similar numbers relative to Hondas market share, they would have at least 20 plants here in the States.
Good post, and very true.
Ford:
31 Plants in the USA
World HQ in the USA
Huge Engineering, Design and marketing staffs in USA
Profits stay here and much of it is reinvested here
Honda:
4 Plants in the USA
World HQ in Japan along with associated jobs
Profits go to Japan with little control over where invested
Market Share:
Ford 14-16%
Honda 10-12%
You tell me who does more for the American worker. If Honda employed similar numbers relative to Hondas market share, they would have at least 20 plants here in the States.
Good post, and very true.
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Ford:
31 Plants in the USA
World HQ in the USA
Huge Engineering, Design and marketing staffs in USA
Profits stay here and much of it is reinvested here
Honda:
4 Plants in the USA
World HQ in Japan along with associated jobs
Profits go to Japan with little control over where invested
Market Share:
Ford 14-16%
Honda 10-12%
You tell me who does more for the American worker. If Honda employed similar numbers relative to Hondas market share, they would have at least 20 plants here in the States.
Yet I hope that you would agree that it is BETTER that the Honda (for example) if being bought is made here in the US with American labor than it being brought over from Japan (or off shores) completely assembled?
The fact is people will be buying Honda's, Toyota's and such and if they do, hopefully they are employing labor (being assembled) here.
Bill
Ford:
31 Plants in the USA
World HQ in the USA
Huge Engineering, Design and marketing staffs in USA
Profits stay here and much of it is reinvested here
Honda:
4 Plants in the USA
World HQ in Japan along with associated jobs
Profits go to Japan with little control over where invested
Market Share:
Ford 14-16%
Honda 10-12%
You tell me who does more for the American worker. If Honda employed similar numbers relative to Hondas market share, they would have at least 20 plants here in the States.
Yet I hope that you would agree that it is BETTER that the Honda (for example) if being bought is made here in the US with American labor than it being brought over from Japan (or off shores) completely assembled?
The fact is people will be buying Honda's, Toyota's and such and if they do, hopefully they are employing labor (being assembled) here.
Bill
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